I admire those who dig into highly complex systems in the hope of finding
useful information in aggregate patterns. But there is also the alternative
analytical method of finding the smallest components and trying to make
sense of much simpler systems. That is why: (01)
"For a number of reasons the nematode Caenorhabditis elegans has become a
favored laboratory model for neurobiological studies. It is the only
organism for which the entire nervous system, consisting of 302 neurons, has
been completely mapped by serial section electron microscopy, elucidating
the various chemical synapses and gap junction connections (2). C. elegans
also exhibits a simple behavioral repertoire consisting primarily of forward
movements (backward waves), backward movements (reversals), and omega waves,
which produce 180 deg changes in direction (3, 4)." (02)
Only 302 neurons, fully mapped over ten years ago (including developmental
forms and some mutants), and they are still working on understanding aspects
of its behavior and how the interactions of those 302 neurons produce that
behavior. The approach combines fine level anatomical detail and
observation of behavior as well. Of course, people are more interesting,
and we are likely to learn some interesting things by studying really
complex systems, but for some of us the path from atomic elements to the
behavior of the whole system is more interesting than just the surface
behavior. (03)
It is difficult to do the kind of experiments on people that we do on
animals for obvious ethical reasons. Some of the earlier work with
electrode probes in live brains was done on some very sick patients in the
course of trying to cure them, especially of serious epilepsy. Until we get
as many volunteers to have hundreds of electrodes stuck in their brains as
we have had to blow themselves up, progress will likely be slow. The
excitement about FMRI (Functional Magnetic resonance Imaging) is that it can
be done on live people without serious risk of injury. But the resolution
is extremely coarse. Still, it tells us something. Better yet to come for
sure, but I fear not very soon. Perhaps wearing a bunch of electrode
contacts on the skull can be sold as a form of fashionable body-piercing?
;-) (04)
PatC (05)
Patrick Cassidy
MICRA, Inc.
908-561-3416
cell: 908-565-4053
cassidy@xxxxxxxxx (06)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 11:55 PM
> To: clynch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] brainwaves (WAS: to concept or not to
> concept, is this a question?)
>
> Thanks Clynch
>
> I understand what you say perfectly well, and you are right, I am not
> a neuroscientist
> I do respect your profession, and I am sure there is value in
> dissection but in my non expert view dissection can only study some
> physical aspects of the brain. (ie enable to better look at the
> individual bits) The 'logical' functions of the brain (the mental
> abilities) I dont think you can study by looking at the pieces
> Please correct me
>
> PDM
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2007 11:44 AM, clynch <clynch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > PDM,
> >
> > If you had ever seen a human brain in situ or on a dissecting plate
> and
> > looked at a section of the amygdala under an electron microscope, I
> doubt
> > you would have your opinion that the brain "should be studied as a
> whole".
> > This is like studying an orange seed from the outside of an unpeeled
> orange
> > or deducing behavior of an electron by looking at a piece of wood,
> only more
> > limiting.
> >
> > >From the discussions I have seen posted, I cannot deduce your area
> of
> > expertise, but one of mine is medicine and neuroendocrinology, and I
> assure
> > you are incorrect in this instance.
> >
> > Cecil Lynch
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:27 PM
> > To: [ontolog-forum]
> > Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] brainwaves (WAS: to concept or not to
> > concept,is this a question?)
> >
> >
> > On Dec 18, 2007 7:57 AM, Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > . Even if one were given a complete
> > > (dead) mammalian brain, there is no conceivable
> > > way to reconstruct all the neural connections in
> > > it, since the total cross-section of a neuron's
> > > end branchings greatly exceeds that of its axon,
> > > and these neurons are tightly packed in the
> > > cortex. Any way to 'take it apart' to find all
> > > the neurons, therefore, would of necessity
> > > involve breaking the connections which hold them
> > > together. Put another way: its impossible to
> > > assemble (or disassemble) a brain; it has to be
> > > grown.
> >
> > This is precisely why I think the brain should be studied as a whole,
> and
> > not in its puree or minced form.
> > Thats the only way the neural paths (folk. 'brainwave') can be
> observed,
> >
> > I hate to think like Frankenstein , but I bet you can induce some
> > level of passive activity in a coma brain by passing some tiny
> > frequencies. (not ac/dc I guess)
> > I ll have to remember to do that experiment next time I come across a
> coma
> >
> > <grin>
> >
> > PDM
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paola Di Maio
> > School of IT
> > www.mfu.ac.th
> > *********************************************
> >
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>
> --
> Paola Di Maio
> School of IT
> www.mfu.ac.th
> *********************************************
>
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