Dear Rich,
I am saying that it “does have its own identity whether or not you are interested in it. That is different from giving it an identifier. Identity is how you know if two things are the same or not. So if you pick up a grain of sand one day, and go back and pick up another one the next day, how would you know if it was the same one – perhaps more practically, what would you have to do to be able to confirm it was the same one.
The answer is you would have to track it somehow, so you could show that it was connected through space and time to the one you pick up the day before. You might want to do this if you were studying longshore drift, but there are not many occasions on which you would care.
Regards
Matthew
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
Sent: 17 June 2015 15:39
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] The "qua-entities" paradigm
Dear Matthew,
So you are saying that the identity of sand depends on your perspective, on the problem you are solving, or on the goals you set. One grain of sand *could* have its own identity, but only if you are interested in tracking all the grains of sand in your context.
Yet I can identify sand in 20 pound bags with one identifier - the one on the sand bag.
Did I get your meaning right, Matthew, i.e., it all depends on your own personal perspective, which states how you view the sand.
Thanks!
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper,
Rich Cooper,
Chief Technology Officer,
MetaSemantics Corporation
MetaSemantics AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
( 9 4 9 ) 5 2 5-5 7 1 2
http://www.EnglishLogicKernel.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Matthew West
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:26 AM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] The "qua-entities" paradigm
Dear Rich,
Each grain of sand exists in the real world and has identity, whether or not you are interested in them. That is something entirely different. A handful of sand is also something that exists in the real world (the aggregate of the grains of sand whilst they are in your hand) and whether you care about that is also a different question.
Regards
Matthew West
Information Junction
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-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rich Cooper
Sent: 17 June 2015 06:49
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] The "qua-entities" paradigm
Are you saying that identity must *always* be *unique*? I can identify a handful of sand at the beach without assigning an identity to each grain.
All grains look the same to me, therefore all sand has the same identity, so I treat it as a unitless object, and the best I can do to subdivide it is to organize it into specific volumes, weights and prices.
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper,
Chief Technology Officer,
MetaSemantics Corporation
MetaSemantics AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com ( 9 4 9 ) 5 2 5-5 7 1 2 http://www.EnglishLogicKernel.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F Sowa
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 10:30 PM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] The "qua-entities" paradigm
On 6/17/2015 1:12 AM, Rich Cooper wrote:
> you could say that the ID is the concatenated value of all
properties
I was trying to explain that similarity is observable, but identity is always an inference.
It's irrelevant how you represent the properties or what conventions you adopt for storing information about them.
You still have to observe the patterns before you can *infer* whether or not they determine a unique item.
John
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