Dear Chris, (01)
> >
> > > Your questions betray a radically extensionalist view of
> music, Jay
> > > -- you seem to be suggesting that a performance of Cage's piece is
> > > identical with any 4'33" interval of silence.
> > >
> > > > What is the sound of one hand clapping?
> > >
> > > Obviously you don't watch The Simpsons. :-)
> > >
> > > > "No entity without identity."
> > >
> > > Ah, confirmation of your extensionalism!
> >
> > What Jay had actually missed was the intentional nature of a
> > performance.
>
> Er, uh...huh? I chided Jay about his apparently extensional view of
> musical performances, i.e., the view that they are identical with the
> sound produced. (02)
MW: Well then perhaps I should be asking what you mean by
extensionalism, since it seems to be different from my understanding. (03)
MW: My understanding would be that under extensionalism, the
identity of an object (that it is a distinct object) is defined by its
extension. So a performance of 4'33" is a particular piece of space time
including temporal parts of the performers and listeners and some
instrument(s). It would not be any peice of silent 4'33", because it
needs to be an intentional silent performance of 4'33" to qualify. So
I would see a category error in what you were criticising as apparently
extensionalist. (04)
> Obviously, what is missing from such a view are the
> intentional elements of a performance (as I even illustrated; see
> below). (05)
MW: Yes, we are agreed on this. It is the leap to a problem with
xtensionalism that I do not follow.
>
> > (You may recall Leo pointing out the intentional nature of
> > performance.)
>
> And you may recall my pointing out that musical performances are not
> extensional. ;-) (06)
MW: Well I would say that they were extensional, so clearly we mean
something different. I'd like to know what you mean.
>
> > There is no performance of 4' 33" unless it is intended to be. The
> > intentional nature of performance is a key element of its identity.
>
> *boggle* In addition to registering my disagreement with an
> extensional
> view of musical performance, I paid explicit homage to the intentional
> in a passage you neglected to quote:
>
> > > Obviously [4'33"] begins at the beginning; given the nature of the
> > > piece it seems to me it begins when the performer gives
> some sort of
> > > internal nod and, of course, ends 4'33" later.
>
> > Extensionalism here is irrelevant, except that it allows
> you to answer
> > the question of how many performances there were in a
> particular hall
> > at a particular time based on the participation of the
> performers and
> > the audience.
>
> I think you need to re-read my post. Our views of performance are
> apparently quite similar. Why you failed to see that is
> rather baffling
> to me. (07)
MW: I agree our views of performance are similar. I am baffled by
what you mean by extensionalism. (08)
Regards (09)
Matthew West
Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager
Shell International Petroleum Company Limited
Registered in England and Wales
Registered number: 621148
Registered office: Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom (010)
Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
http://www.shell.com
http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/ (011)
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (012)
|