Dear Chris, (01)
You were doing well until: (02)
> Your questions betray a radically extensionalist view of music, Jay
> -- you seem to be suggesting that a performance of Cage's piece is
> identical with any 4'33" interval of silence.
>
> > What is the sound of one hand clapping?
>
> Obviously you don't watch The Simpsons. :-)
>
> > "No entity without identity."
>
> Ah, confirmation of your extensionalism! (03)
What Jay had actually missed was the intentional nature of a performance.
(You may recall Leo pointing out the intentional nature of performance.)
There is no performance of 4' 33" unless it is intended to be. The
intentional nature of performance is a key element of its identity. (04)
Extensionalism here is irrelevant, except that it allows you to answer
the question of how many performances there were in a particular hall
at a particular time based on the participation of the performers and
the audience. (05)
Regards (06)
Matthew West
Reference Data Architecture and Standards Manager
Shell International Petroleum Company Limited
Registered in England and Wales
Registered number: 621148
Registered office: Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom (07)
Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
Email: matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx
http://www.shell.com
http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/ (08)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> Christopher
> Menzel
> Sent: 06 September 2007 00:02
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Current Semantic Web Layer pizza
> (was ckae)
>
>
> >> Chris M.> Nonetheless, you heard *the piece*. If there is
> a 2-bar
> >> rest in the middle of the first movement of a symphony, say, you
> >> don't stop hearing the symphony during the silence. Cage's piece
> >> pushes that fact to the limit.
> >
> > Queries: When does one not hear the Cage piece?
>
> Obviously, when one is not attending (or attending to) a performance
> of it.
>
> > Does a deaf person hear the piece?
>
> While in attendance? I'm inclined to say no, as it seems to me the
> possibility of sound is essential to hearing the piece. But as with
> most real world phenomena, there are fuzzy cases where there may not
> be a definite answer.
>
> > Does a person in another city hear it?
>
> No more than she hears any performance in another city.
>
> > Someone asleep?
>
> No more than anyone else who's asleep.
>
> > How many times does one hear the piece during a lifetime?
>
> How many times does one hear, say, Handel's Messiah? Obviously as
> many times as one attends a performance of it.
>
> > When does a performance of the piece begin and end?
>
> Obviously it begins at the beginning; given the nature of the piece
> it seems to me it begins when the performer gives some sort of
> internal nod and, of course, ends 4'33" later. The same sort of
> vagueness attends the performance of most any piece of music.
>
> Your questions betray a radically extensionalist view of music, Jay
> -- you seem to be suggesting that a performance of Cage's piece is
> identical with any 4'33" interval of silence.
>
> > What is the sound of one hand clapping?
>
> Obviously you don't watch The Simpsons. :-)
>
> > "No entity without identity."
>
> Ah, confirmation of your extensionalism!
>
> -chris
>
>
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> (09)
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