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Re: [ontolog-forum] Model or Reality (was: Current Semantic WebLayerCake

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Gary Berg-Cross" <gary.berg-cross@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:38:06 -0400
Message-id: <330E3C69AFABAE45BD91B28F80BE32C90104D687@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Pat and Azamat's exchange:    (01)

Pat>> Right. The key point that Azamat needs to grasp is that reality is
> not a representation, even of itself. Korzybsky said it succinctly:
>> the map is not the territory.    (02)

>This is rather a trivial comment. There is >(fundamental) reality (the
world 
>as it is), its representation (mental signs) and cultural >embodyments
(Web and other artefacts). Note that >the last two emerge as parts or
modalities 
>of basic reality.    (03)

Some succinct  statements are more trivial than others.  I'm for
Korzybsky & Pat here .    (04)

Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
Spatial Ontology Community of Practice (SOCoP)
http://www.visualknowledge.com/wiki/socop
Executive Secretariat
Semantic Technology
EM&I 
Suite 350  455 Spring park Place
Herndon VA  20170
703-742-0585    (05)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pat Hayes" <phayes@xxxxxxx>
To: "Kathryn Blackmond Laskey" <klaskey@xxxxxxx>
Cc: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Model or Reality (was: Current Semantic Web    (06)

LayerCake)    (07)


> >At 10:23 PM +0300 8/6/07, Azamat wrote:
>>>The citations of the day:
>>>>   As a human, I think that it should be possible to speak of
>>>>   one reality, as a computer scientist and engineers I see that it
is 
>>>> not
>>>>   possible - and in my oppinion never will be possible - to reflect
one
>>>>   reality in our systems, as all system are based on different
>>>>   conceptualizations.
>>>
>>>Reality is one as its true representation. Otherwise, your will have
just
>>>defective systems with ''different conceptualizations''.
>>
>>That reality is one does not imply there is one "true representation"
>>of the one reality.
>
> Right. The key point that Azamat needs to grasp is that reality is
> not a representation, even of itself. Korzybsky said it succinctly:
> the map is not the territory.
This is rather a trivial comment. There is (fundamental) reality (the
world 
as it is), its representation (mental signs) and cultural embodyments
(Web 
and other artefacts). Note that the last two emerge as parts or
modalities 
of basic reality.
>
> Pat
> -- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973   home
> 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416   office
> Pensacola (850)202 4440   fax
> FL 32502 (850)291 0667    cell
> phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes    (08)


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