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Re: [ontolog-forum] Two ontologies that are inconsistent but both needed

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Chris Partridge" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:35:14 +0100
Message-id: <004d01c7ab9e$daa5f440$0200a8c0@POID7204>
vQ,    (01)

>I think the question of whether an avalanche is a continuant or an
>occurrent is ill-posed,    (02)

I think there is some circularity here.    (03)

I am assuming (a thought experiment) where one is present at something that
people tend to call avalanches, and asking what exists.    (04)

If one accepts the continuant/occurrent distinction then one could
reasonably ask (as I did Barry) whether he thought a continuant or an
occurrent or both existed.    (05)

I am not presupposing, as you seem to suggest, a notion of what an avalanche
is. That is something for you and/or Barry to supply.    (06)

I am happy if you want to take both your definitions below (call them
avalanche#1 and avalanche#2 if you wish). This means that for you, these two
things exist.    (07)

I am suspicious of your discussion of meanings  which are about the
relation of terms to the world  it is rather that exists in the world that
I am interested in.     (08)

Chris    (09)

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
>bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Waclaw Kusnierczyk
>Sent: 10 June 2007 19:56
>To: [ontolog-forum]
>Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Two ontologies that are inconsistentbut
>Chris Partridge wrote:
>>> Avalanche theory is based on the distinction
>>> between granular layers (continuants) and flows
>>> (which when summed together make the avalanches themselves).
>> So, waves are continuants and avalanches occurrents? Or slightly more
>> accurately, there are wave continuants and wave-life occurrents, whereas
>> there are only avalanche(-life) occurrents (i.e. there are no avalanche
>> continuants) - as flows and flow-sums are occurrents. Have I understood
>> position correctly?
>I think the question of whether an avalanche is a continuant or an
>occurrent is ill-posed, in the sense that we need first a meta-statement
>about the term 'avalanche'.  One you accept the distinction between
>continuants and occurrents (and why not), an avalanche is a continuant
>or an occurrent -- depending on what 'avalanche' means to you.
>If 'avalanche' is taken to mean the sliding down of large masses of
>stuff (snow, ice, mud), then an avalanche, in this sense, is an occurrent.
>If 'avalanche' is taken to mean a large mass of stuff (...) that slides
>down, then an avalanche, in this sense, is a continuant.
>The term 'avalanche' has a number of meanings, including those two
>above, and the actual meaning varies from context to context.  (Ingvar,
>what would be the sentence meaning of 'an avalanche was observed', as
>opposed to its many used sentence meanings?)
>If you looked at how 'avalanche' is defined in the dictionaries
>accessible through onelook (www.onelook.com), for example, you'd find:
>"a rapid downhill *flow* of a large mass of something"
>"a sudden overwhelming *quantity* of something"
>"a *mass* of snow and ice falling rapidly down"
>"a large *mass* of snow, ice, earth, rock, or other material in swift
>"a sudden great or overwhelming *rush* or accumulation of something"
>What is interesting in some of those definitions, is that some of them
>that consider an avalanche a continuant, do not actually allow to think
>of an avalanche (a continuant) *at* a time -- an avalanche is a mass in
>motion, and there is no motion *at* an instant.
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10:46    (011)

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