I believe I am not. The issue is simply that you can't reasonably ask
whether X is a continuant or an occurrent (the metaphysical distinction)
if the term 'X' is used with meanings corresponding to both sides of the
distinction, and you do not make clear which is the meaning you use. (01)
I may ask 'are Xs continuants or occurrents?', and we may argue for
years, and they certainly are either continuants or occurrents (if this
is a genuine ontological distinction), but we may simply be talking
about different entities using the same term. (02)
If you say that an avalanche is an occurrent, I may say that of course
not, because a mass of snow is not an occurrent. I would not suspect in
this case that you think that a mass of snow is an occurrent, but rather
that you mean the falling of a mass of snow when you say 'avalanche'. (03)
vQ (04)
Bill Andersen wrote:
> Wacek,
>
> I believe you're confusing the metaphysical distinction, which Barry is
> trying to make, with a semantic one. That there can be two different
> semantic interpretations of the word 'avalanche' is not surprising.
>
> .bill
>
>
> On Jun 10, 2007, at 14:56 , Waclaw Kusnierczyk wrote:
>
>> Chris Partridge wrote:
>>
>>>> Avalanche theory is based on the distinction
>>>> between granular layers (continuants) and flows
>>>> (which when summed together make the avalanches themselves).
>>>>
>>>
>>> So, waves are continuants and avalanches occurrents? Or slightly more
>>> accurately, there are wave continuants and wave-life occurrents, whereas
>>> there are only avalanche(-life) occurrents (i.e. there are no avalanche
>>> continuants) - as flows and flow-sums are occurrents. Have I
>>> understood your
>>> position correctly?
>>
>> I think the question of whether an avalanche is a continuant or an
>> occurrent is ill-posed, in the sense that we need first a meta-statement
>> about the term 'avalanche'. One you accept the distinction between
>> continuants and occurrents (and why not), an avalanche is a continuant
>> or an occurrent -- depending on what 'avalanche' means to you.
>>
>> If 'avalanche' is taken to mean the sliding down of large masses of
>> stuff (snow, ice, mud), then an avalanche, in this sense, is an occurrent.
>>
>> If 'avalanche' is taken to mean a large mass of stuff (...) that slides
>> down, then an avalanche, in this sense, is a continuant.
>>
>> The term 'avalanche' has a number of meanings, including those two
>> above, and the actual meaning varies from context to context. (Ingvar,
>> what would be the sentence meaning of 'an avalanche was observed', as
>> opposed to its many used sentence meanings?)
>>
>> If you looked at how 'avalanche' is defined in the dictionaries
>> accessible through onelook (www.onelook.com <http://www.onelook.com>),
>> for example, you'd find:
>>
>> "a rapid downhill *flow* of a large mass of something"
>> "a sudden overwhelming *quantity* of something"
>> "a *mass* of snow and ice falling rapidly down"
>> "a large *mass* of snow, ice, earth, rock, or other material in swift
>> motion"
>> "a sudden great or overwhelming *rush* or accumulation of something"
>>
>> etc.
>>
>> What is interesting in some of those definitions, is that some of them
>> that consider an avalanche a continuant, do not actually allow to think
>> of an avalanche (a continuant) *at* a time -- an avalanche is a mass in
>> motion, and there is no motion *at* an instant.
>>
>> vQ
>>
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>
> Bill Andersen (andersen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:andersen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>)
>
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--
Wacek Kusnierczyk (06)
------------------------------------------------------
Department of Information and Computer Science (IDI)
Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU)
Sem Saelandsv. 7-9
7027 Trondheim
Norway (07)
tel. 0047 73591875
fax 0047 73594466
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