[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [ontolog-forum] {Disarmed} Re: OWL and lack of identifiers and other

To: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Cc: Ontolog Forum <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Waclaw Kusnierczyk <Waclaw.Marcin.Kusnierczyk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:37:51 +0200
Message-id: <4634F40F.1040103@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Pat Hayes wrote:
>> Pat Hayes wrote:
>>>>  > Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx> writes:
>>>>>>  I think you are reading more into that word [objective] than
>>>>>>  I do. Objective does not mean final, absolute, or
>>>>>>  permanent. It means concerned with facts rather
>>>>>>  than opinions.
>>>> It sounds as if my saying 'the earth is flat' were an objective
>>>> statement, while 'i think that the earth is flat' were a subjective
>>>> statement.  Is my saying 'she says the earth is flat' an objective or a
>>>> subjective statement?
>>> Objective, in that it asserts something about what she said.
>> good.  then if someone has some opinion, and i make a statement about 
>> that opinion, is it an objective or a subjective statement? 'about 
>> that opinion' is to say the statement is 'her opinion is that the 
>> earth is flat', rather than 'according to her opinion the earth is 
>> flat' or 'she holds the opinion that the earth is flat' -- so that the 
>> opinion is the subject of the statement?
> Yes.
> I think I see where you are going here. The conclusion will be that even 
> my statements of my opinions are objective, because they are objective 
> statements of my opinion. Hence, all assertions of any point of view are 
> ultimately objective.
> If I have this more or less right, then the response is that the 
> distinction between a factual assertion and a mere opinion is that the 
> latter is *about* an opinion or state of the speaker's beliefs, whereas 
> the former is *about* an actual state of affairs in the real world.    (01)

i'll try to summarize this:    (02)

- an opinion is an assertion that is about an opinion (sic) or the state 
of the speaker's beliefs (how does such state of beliefs differ from 
opinion, and if it doesn't, what do we gain from this 'definition'?)    (03)

- a factual assertion is about an actual state of affairs.  but what 
else can we know for sure other than what we have in our minds, i.e., 
our opinions?  this 'definition' plus the question turned to an 
assumption leads me to the conclusion that my statement 'there is a 
bottle of beer in th fridge' is subjective -- and possibly objective -- 
in that it is objective only if there happens to be a b.o.b. in the 
fridge, hopefully, while my statement 'i believe there is a bottle of 
beer in the fridge' is objective, in that i know that this is my 
opinion, and i can't see how this would not be an actual state of 
affairs in the real world.    (04)

if i may, in my opinion your response is doubly unconvincing, though i 
won't factually assert that it really is.    (05)

vQ    (06)

Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/  
Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/  
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ 
To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    (07)

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>