Dear Steve,
It's usually possible to do a little better than marriage-e and marriage-s,
for example, marriage ceremony and marriage in this case would seem the most
natural. Using qualifying words in this way (and thinking about alternative
interpretations of words before using them) is critical to success in this. (01)
Regards (02)
Matthew West
Information Junction
Tel: +44 1489 880185
Mobile: +44 750 3385279
Skype: dr.matthew.west
matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/
http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/ (03)
This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in England
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Ray
> Sent: 01 May 2012 20:24
> To: 'Mike Bennett'; 'Ontology Summit 2012 discussion'; 'Cory Casanave'
> Cc: simf-rfp@xxxxxxx; simfteam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] First Model Bench Challenge
>
> Mike, I agree. Those are the concepts I intended, I just used the wrong
> words (!)
>
> I was thinking we could label the concepts, such as marriage-e for the
> event and marriage-s for the state.
>
> Steven R. Ray, Ph.D.
> Distinguished Research Fellow
> Carnegie Mellon University
> NASA Research Park
> Building 23 (MS 23-11)
> P.O. Box 1
> Moffett Field, CA 94305-0001
> Email: steve.ray@xxxxxxxxxx
> Phone: (650) 587-3780
> Cell: (202) 316-6481
> Skype: steverayconsulting
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Bennett [mailto:mbennett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 12:11 PM
> To: steve.ray@xxxxxxxxxx; Ontology Summit 2012 discussion; 'Cory
> Casanave'
> Cc: simf-rfp@xxxxxxx; simfteam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ontology-summit] First Model Bench Challenge
>
> I would tend to frame that in a slightly different way. We are talking
> about words and meanings, and it's clear from this example (and from
> some that we have been working on) that once you consider modeling
> meaningful concepts, there are not enough words to go around - natural
> language speakers use a lot of contextual stuff to disambiguate.
>
> So there are more concepts than words. Marriage as a transition and as
> a state is (as has been noted) a not untypical example. Commitments and
> obligations in transactions are another example we are grappling with
> right now (the commitment when the deal is struck and the
> commitment/obligation/whatever that persists until the deal is
> settled).
>
> To me it therefore makes more sense to speak not in terms of wanting to
> "model every interpretation of a concept" but rather "model every
> concept that a word may be used to represent" or "model every meaning
> of a word" or simply "model every concept" ... and then map these to
> the words.
>
> That is to say, I think it is misleading to refer to words as though
> they are concepts. They are not. They are symbols.
>
> And before anyone else says it, SBVR has a good formal treatment of the
> relationships between words and meanings, i.e. vocabulary / lexicon
> versus meaningful concepts.
>
> For those who speak more than one language, the concept (the meaning)
> is what you hold in your mind while seeking for the word in the
> language you are interpreting into. For those who don't, the nearest
> thing I can think of is that "it's on the tip of my tongue" moment when
> you know what you want to say but not the words in which to say it. I
> don't know if that helps.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike Bennett
> Head of Semantics and Standards
> EDM Council
> Tel: +44 20 7917 9522
> Cell: +44 7721 420 730
> www.edmcouncil.org
> Semantics Repository: www.hypercube.co.uk/edmcouncil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve
> Ray
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 1:47 PM
> To: 'Ontology Summit 2012 discussion'; 'Cory Casanave'
> Cc: simf-rfp@xxxxxxx; simfteam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] First Model Bench Challenge
>
> I agree that the real value of this exercise is for us to dig as deep
> as we possibly can to model every conceivable interpretation of the
> concepts. This will give us a fantastic artifact for intercomparisons &
> round-robin exercises, as well as a great way to examine the different
> languages.
>
>
> Steven R. Ray, Ph.D.
> Distinguished Research Fellow
> Carnegie Mellon University
> NASA Research Park
> Building 23 (MS 23-11)
> P.O. Box 1
> Moffett Field, CA 94305-0001
> Email: steve.ray@xxxxxxxxxx
> Phone: (650) 587-3780
> Cell: (202) 316-6481
> Skype: steverayconsulting
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Paul
> Brown
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 6:58 AM
> To: Cory Casanave; Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
> Cc: simf-rfp@xxxxxxx; simfteam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] First Model Bench Challenge
>
> A likely scenario drawn from this discussion is one in which one party
> views the marriage as the event while another party views the marriage
> as the state. They are never going to agree on a common definition,
> because each has its own concept. Yet these two concepts are definitely
> related: One marks the point of state transition that is part of the
> other's model.
>
> I think this is illustrative of situations (pardon the double entendre)
> we are going to encounter in the real world!
>
> -- PCB
>
> ***********************************************************************
> *****
> **************
> Paul C. Brown
> Principal Software Architect
> TIBCO Software Inc.
> Email: pbrown@xxxxxxxxx Mobile: 518-424-5360
>
> "Total architecture is not a choice - it is a concession to reality."
> Visit www.total-architecture.com
> Architecture Books:
> -- Succeeding With SOA: Realizing Business Value Through Total
> Architecture
> -- Implementing SOA: Total Architecture In Practice
> -- TIBCO Architecture Fundamentals
>
> The SOA Manifesto: soa-manifesto.org
>
> Read the TIBCO blog: www.thetibcoblog.com
> ***********************************************************************
> *****
> **************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cory Casanave [mailto:cory-c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 12:17 AM
> To: Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
> Cc: simfteam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; simf-rfp@xxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ontology-summit] First Model Bench Challenge
>
> I would agree - there are 2 concepts under the label "Marriage", a
> situation and an event. The intent of the example in the web page is
> the situation but you may well also represent the event for extra
> credit!
> -Cory
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ontology-summit- bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hans
> > Polzer
> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:55 PM
> > To: 'Ontology Summit 2012 discussion'
> > Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] First Model Bench Challenge
> >
> > Isn't it both? Marriage is both a state transition (the rite that
> > signals the transition to a married state from an unmarried state),
> > and a steady state condition after the state transition occurs (as in
> > "their marriage has lasted for
> > 50 years"). The word "wedding" is often used to distinguish between
> > the state transition and the steady state condition, denoting the
> > former but not the latter (although common usage isn't always precise
> > on this point, as in "wedded bliss").
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jack
> > Ring
> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:44 PM
> > To: doug@xxxxxxxxxx; Ontology Summit 2012 discussion
> > Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] First Model Bench Challenge
> >
> > ??
> > Marriage is a situation in which a couple BECOMES married.") On Apr
> > 30, 2012, at 1:39 PM, doug foxvog wrote:
> >
> > > Marriage is a situation in which a couple is married.")
> >
> >
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