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Joe:
Difference is a function (must return value) - agree.
What is value V=diff(Math, BS and SoS) ?
"Common sense" (wiki) explains
that "difference
is opposed to identity" and that
"The notion of identity gives rise to many philosophical problems, including the
identity of indiscernibles (if x and y share all their properties, are they one
and the same thing?), and questions about change and personal identity over time
(what has to be the case for a person x at one time and a person y at a later
time to be one and the same person?)."
The measure and units are very important, of
course
1 + 1 = 2
Anybody agree
1 John + 1 John = 2
John
It's funny :)
Have fun
Yuri
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 5:13
PM
Subject: Re:
[ontology-summit][BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems
Yuriy:
The difference is a function of the units of
measure, context of evaluation and the sensitivity of the measuring
instrument.
Have fun,
Joe
On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Yuriy Milov <qdone@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Joe:
What is the difference
between Mathematics and Big Systems and Systems
Engineering?
Kronecker said "God
made integers; all else is the work of man"
I agree :)
Not sure if musiciants and poets should learn from
math (why not?) but the engineers must. Math can teach how to manage
the big systems and SoS. No need to invent bicycles. Most of problems and
solutions have been formalized and semanticly vocabularied in the
proper math fiels (complexity theory, chaos theory, nonlinear equations, so
far, so on). What we need is just apply that formalized math knowledge
in our computerized world. Just making software. It's
not a big deal - it's just a question of
money.
But what was not solved by mathematics for
free that cannot be solved any other way except of by magic
:)
And this is already out of the Ontology
Summit topic
Regards
Yuri
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 2:56
PM
Subject: Re:
[ontology-summit][BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems
Yuriy: Because the name of this track is Big Systems
and Systems Engineering this topic fits under the topic of mathematics (a
very big system). However, engineering in general is a bit
different and systems engineering is even more
different. Engineering is the act of applying mathematics and
scientific principles to the solution of practical problems. So,
math is a tool used by engineers to solve problems. Then there are
systems science and metasystems methodology that set the context for the
application of systems engineering. There is little or no magic
involved in these well defined approaches and processes for designing,
developing, deploying and operating large-scale systems. However,
as Arthur C. Clarke detailed in his three laws, "Any sufficiently advanced
technology is indistinguishable from magic." In my mind we are
discussing a very advanced technology that integrates large stores of
data, information and technology. It is not magic. Take care
and have fun, Joe
2012/2/3 Yuriy Milov <qdone@xxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Joe,
If a () system of () systems
exists then a (very (simple)) system is still a system of
(very (very (simple))) system.
It's amaizing
to know a very simple system which demonstrates very
complex behavior. This is a fantastic
gift. We do not deserv it - but we have it! :)
We could think that the natural numbers
(1,2,3,4,5,6,7.. so on) is simple. Are we sure?
Let's choose a natural number n1 (free,
spontaneously, without any reasons - just any of natural
numbers) and then let's choose again any natural number n2 (free,
spontaneously, without any reasons - just any of natural
numbers).
The more freedom of choice we have - the more
chances that n2>n1
Absolute freedom of choice makes n2>n1
guaranteed
The reason of this is that there is no a biggest
natural number (that is also an amazing fact, by the way)
We (people) are finite (in space and
time) pretty simple entities. How can we understand infinity?
The answer is - because ae are able to play with
a freedom of choice - thanks for the great gift - the natural
numbers :)
The
logistic equations and cellular automata are magic wands whaich
transform complex system of systems in a simple set 1,2,3 and so on
:)
Yuri
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012
3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit]
[BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems
The logistic equation is a math model of the behavior
of a living system. A very simple system can demonstrate very
complex behavior. In my view this is another example of general
systems theory (GST) where a specific branch of science was
generalized into mathematics and applied in many
places. However, this is behavior of a simple system, not a
system of systems or an industrial system. Have
fun, Joe
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Yuriy Milov
<qdone@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Jack,
I think the metod is to follow the
cascade of bifurcation which has the
universal mesure (a sort of
the delta number which can be got
from
experiment/experience)
The magics here is our ability
to distinguish the related and unrelated
events - where the
bifurcated branchs (splitted paths) belongs one tree
(one
way)
Sorry if it is too vague methafora - I do some urgent
job right now
Yuri
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