Quite so. However, what method do we have for reaching 'universality.' (01)
On Feb 2, 2012, at 1:42 PM, Yuriy Milov wrote: (02)
> Adding - just to clarify of meaning of univerality of the complex systems
> that Stephen Wolfram provides in his "A New Kind of Science" (p 690):
>
> "... the fact that as soon as one has a system that is universal, adding
> further complication to its rules cannot have any fundamental effect. For by
> virtue of its universality the system can always ultimately just emulate the
> behavior that would be obtained with any more complicated set of rules.
> So what this means is that if one looks at a sequence of systems with
> progressively more complicated rules, one should expect that the overall
> behavior they produce will become more complex only until the threshold of
> universality is reached. And as soon as this threshold is passed, there
> should then be no further fundamental changes in what one sees."
>
> http://www.wolframscience.com/nksonline/page-690-text?firstview=1
>
> Yuriy Milov
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yuriy Milov" <qdone@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Ontology Summit 2012 discussion" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 1:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit][BigSystems and
> SystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems
>
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Sorry guys if I missed something in this thread but when I hear SOS I
>> cannot
>> be out :)
>>
>> Sometimes the jokes have meaning - it's not a joke
>>
>> I want to share few links here which make a sense for me regarding the
>> topic
>>
>> I mean the Feigenbaum Universality
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Feigenbaum and the Matthew Cook
>> and/or Stephen Wolfram Rule 110 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110
>>
>> Каждый понимает в меру своей
>испорченности, но, как хорошо всем
>известно,
>> все уже было давно украдено до нас... тьфу
>ты - сказано, конечно :)
>>
>> BTW I guess but don't understand why we use English instead of Russian
>> language to discuss such complicated topics - as it is so naturally to use
>> the best tool (the language formal or informal in this case) if we plan to
>> make a quality artifact - Anatoly Levenchuk understands me ;)
>>
>> Even the self-reference paradox and recursion has been discussed for
>> thousands years today we have few outstanding discoveries that could move
>> this topic from metaphysics to computational science to implement the new
>> understanding of SOS (both self-organized systems and systems of sysmems),
>> complex and universal dynamics of non-linear systems into the engineering
>> area and computing.
>>
>> As futher generalization I want to hope that the universal laws (both
>> natural and human) show us the universal paths, and we just need to catch
>> the hints to reach the universal goals.
>>
>> I have to focus on some practical things right now, so I apologize ahead -
>> if I miss some comments, if the coments, and if so on :)
>> Hope to participate in this great dicussion later
>>
>> Thanks for your attention
>> Yuriy Milov
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "henson graves" <henson.graves@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "'Ontology Summit 2012 discussion'" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit][BigSystems and
>> SystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems
>>
>>
>>> Anatoly,
>>> I do not think I am disagreeing with you very much. I certainly agree
>>> with
>>> your definition of sos. Your classification of sos makes good sense. The
>>> principles needed to analyze, organize sos can be developed. They are
>>> somewhat different from traditional SE theory and practice, but so what.
>>> - henson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anatoly
>>> Levenchuk
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 10:18 AM
>>> To: 'Ontology Summit 2012 discussion'
>>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [BigSystems and
>>> SystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems
>>>
>>> Henson refer to my text from another thread, I need to repeat it here:
>>> --- /quote---
>>> Need to clarify: systems of systems is not simply about decomposition of
>>> system to another systems!
>>>
>>> 1. ISO 15288 intentionally depart from traditional terminology
>>> "system-subsystem" and have only "system" at all levels - for stressing
>>> recursive usage of systems engineering life cycle processes on all
>>> levels.
>>> This is not "system of systems", it another wording: every "system"
>>> consists
>>> from "system elements" that can be regarded as "systems". This is
>>> "systems
>>> in system" hierarchy (while usually this has no usage as a term and words
>>> "system" stay apart in a sentence). This is all about modules.
>>>
>>> All this system-of-interest has "passive" systems/modules in it, thus
>>> permitting usual development lifecycle
>>> (requirements-architecture-design-implementation-integration-transfer
>>> into
>>> operation-operations-retirement). This life cycle applicable on every
>>> level
>>> of systems in system (of interest, not system-of-systems!).
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. "System of systems" is a term that describe specific situation when we
>>> need create system from already established systems (not modules!) while
>>> each of this established systems has autonomy (owner, systems in
>>> operational
>>> environment, enabling systems etc.) and thus have difficulties to change
>>> to
>>> fit upper level "system of system". There was (and is) multiple attempts
>>> to
>>> develop special "system of systems" methodologies but all of them appear
>>> like retelling of management, conflictology, politics, economy and so on
>>> theories with "system" language. Nothing new was created up to now, no
>>> specific concepts and processes appears, no strong results obtained.
>>> There
>>> is one exclusion: system of systems impossible to "develop" and apply to
>>> them usual engineering process (like that in ISO 15288): there is
>>> nonsufficient authority to perform it due to autonomy of each system
>>> (each
>>> of this system have its own architector and primary stakeholders). Thus
>>> system of systems can only evolve during evolution process with
>>> coordinated
>>> development in each of its systems. If you have system of systems (e.g.
>>> in
>>> organizational engineering) you have to think in evolution terms, not in
>>> traditional engineering ones.
>>>
>>> System of systems is all about autonomy and independence and
>>> impossibility
>>> of developing in usual process --
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_of_systems
>>>
>>> We have several meetings of INCOSE Russian chapter where think about
>>> system
>>> of systems in application to enabling system (that is usually
>>> organization
>>> that have every single employee as owner of oneself thus autonomous and
>>> not
>>> permit to "developing" as a passive system-of-interest). I have a talk
>>> about
>>> it a couple years ago on one of the international system of systems
>>> workshop
>>> --
>>> http://www.slideshare.net/ailev/enabling-systems-of-systems-engineering
>>> ---quote/-------
>>>
>>> There is classification of system of systems in the relation of
>>> "architectural manageability" that mentioned by Henson:
>>> -- directed (that have appointed architect that have authority and
>>> resources
>>> to rule systems in system of systems);
>>> -- acknowledged (that have recognizable architect of system of systems,
>>> but
>>> architect have no authority and resources to command each of systems);
>>> -- collaborative (systems negotiate in every evolution step, but there
>>> are
>>> no system of systems architect or project manager);
>>> -- virtual (systems in system of systems do not know about existence of
>>> each
>>> other, overall system of systems exist only in somebody mind)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Anatoly Levenchuk
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-
>>>> summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of henson graves
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:57 PM
>>>> To: 'Ontology Summit 2012 discussion'
>>>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [BigSystems and
>>>> SystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Anatoly's characterization of "System of systems" is a
>>>> term
>>> that
>>>> describe specific situation when we need create system from already
>>>> established systems (not modules!) while each of this established
>>>> systems has autonomy (owner, systems in operational environment,
>>>> enabling systems
>>>> etc.) and thus have difficulties to change to fit upper level "system
>>>> of
>>> system.
>>>> However, when the owners of the systems agree on a common objective
>>>> they can sometimes achieve a common objective while continuing with
>>>> individual systems pursuits. It is definitely possible to build
>>>> theories
>>> which
>>>> can be used to analyze when a system of systems is likely to work and
>>> when
>>>> it is almost certainly likely to fail.
>>>>
>>>> For example most large scale aerospace programs include many
>>>> individual enterprises which also compete, e.g., Lockheed Martin and
>>>> Boeing on the same team. By looking at how the system of enterprises
>>>> is organized one can make good predictions of its success and
>>>> potential problems. This is
>>> not
>>>> my primary intellectual interest but I have observed and participated
>>>> in these systems of systems.
>>>> - Henson
>>>>
>>>>
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