Re: [ontology-summit] [BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems

[joseph simpson <jjs0sbw@xxxxxxxxx>]

Yuriy:

The difference is a function of the units of measure, context of evaluation and the sensitivity of the measuring instrument.

Have fun,

Joe

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Yuriy Milov <qdone@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Joe:

 

What is the difference between Mathematics and Big Systems and Systems Engineering?

 

Kronecker said "God made integers; all else is the work of man"

 

I agree :)

 

Not sure if musiciants and poets should learn from math (why not?) but the engineers must. Math can teach how to manage the big systems and SoS. No need to invent bicycles. Most of problems and solutions have been formalized and semanticly vocabularied in the proper math fiels (complexity theory, chaos theory, nonlinear equations, so far, so on). What we need is just apply that formalized math knowledge in our computerized world. Just making software. It's not a big deal - it's just a question of money.

 

But what was not solved by mathematics for free that cannot be solved any other way except of by magic :)

 

And this is already out of the Ontology Summit topic

 

Regards

Yuri

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: joseph simpson

To: Ontology Summit 2012 discussion

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 2:56 PM

Subject: Re: [ontology-summit][BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems

Yuriy:

Because the name of this track is Big Systems and Systems Engineering this topic fits under the topic of mathematics (a very big system).

However, engineering in general is a bit different and systems engineering is even more different.

Engineering is the act of applying mathematics and scientific principles to the solution of practical problems.

So, math is a tool used by engineers to solve problems.

Then there are systems science and metasystems methodology that set the context for the application of systems engineering.

There is little or no magic involved in these well defined approaches and processes for designing, developing, deploying and operating large-scale systems.

However, as Arthur C. Clarke detailed in his three laws, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

In my mind we are discussing a very advanced technology that integrates large stores of data, information and technology.

It is not magic.

Take care and have fun,

Joe

2012/2/3 Yuriy Milov <qdone@xxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Joe,

 

If a () system of () systems exists then a (very (simple)) system is still a system of (very (very (simple))) system. 

 

It's amaizing to know a very simple system which demonstrates very complex behavior. This is a fantastic gift. We do not deserv it - but we have it! :)

 

We could think that the natural numbers (1,2,3,4,5,6,7.. so on) is simple. Are we sure?

 

Let's choose a natural number  n1 (free, spontaneously, without any reasons - just any of natural numbers) and  then let's choose again any natural number n2  (free, spontaneously, without any reasons - just any of natural numbers).

 

The more freedom of choice we have - the more chances that n2>n1

 

Absolute freedom of choice makes n2>n1 guaranteed

 

The reason of this is that there is no a biggest natural number (that is also an amazing fact, by the way)

 

We (people) are finite (in space and time) pretty simple entities. How can we understand infinity?

 

The answer is - because ae are able to play with a freedom of choice - thanks for the great gift - the natural numbers :) 

 

The  logistic equations and cellular automata are magic wands whaich transform complex system of systems in a simple set 1,2,3 and so on :)

 

Yuri

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: joseph simpson

To: Ontology Summit 2012 discussion

Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:29 AM

Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems

The logistic equation is a math model of the behavior of a living system.

A very simple system can demonstrate very complex behavior.

In my view this is another example of general systems theory (GST) where a specific branch of science was generalized into mathematics and applied in many places.

However, this is behavior of a simple system, not a system of systems or an industrial system.

Have fun,

Joe

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Yuriy Milov <qdone@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Jack,

I think the metod is to follow the cascade of bifurcation which has the
universal mesure (a sort of the delta number which can be got from
experiment/experience)

The magics here is our ability to distinguish the related and unrelated
events -  where the bifurcated branchs (splitted paths) belongs one tree
(one way)

Sorry if it is too vague methafora - I do some urgent job right now

Yuri

 

_________________________________________________________________
Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2012/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2012
Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

--
Joe Simpson

Sent From My DROID!!

---

_________________________________________________________________
Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/  
Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/ 
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2012/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2012 
Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

_________________________________________________________________
Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2012/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2012
Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/

-- 
Joe Simpson

Sent From My DROID!!
_________________________________________________________________
Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/   
Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/  
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2012/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2012  
Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/     (01)