Paola and others:
I recommend that the IPR policy of Ontology be changed to explicitly state
that all contributions are placed in the public domain, and can be used by
anyone with or without attribution; anyone not agreeing to that policy
should not post anything to the forum.
I also recommend that a brief statement of that policy be placed on the
bottom of every email sent from Ontolog so that no one can claim to be
unaware of that policy.
I really really don't want to spend any time at all researching the
meanings of any "open" IPR legalese, and then keeping a record of everything
that has been said, and searching it everytime I post anything in a public
forum, for fear that I might infringe someone's rights. Good Lord, don't we
have enough issues to deal with without this? Simplest solutions are best.
Public domain, please. (01)
Pat (02)
Patrick Cassidy
MICRA, Inc.
908-561-3416
cell: 908-565-4053
cassidy@xxxxxxxxx (03)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-summit-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:48 PM
> To: Ontology Summit 2008
> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Ontolog IPR issues
>
> Patrick
> I
> >
> > It is easiest just to assume that anything contributed to Ontolog is
> in the
> > public domain, and can be freely reused with or without attribution.
>
> 1. this would be very easy and wrongfully backlashes
> meaning that anyone could use any contribution and plagiarize it?
> 2/ This would be in contradiction with the IPR policy of this forum in
> force until now, and would impact the way people contribute their work
> to this forum
>
> sorry for short, on the fly
> cheers
> P
>
> >
> >
> > > Pat H and Pat C
> > >
> > > I) did not receive the message below via the list btw, but via a
> > > snippet from others comments
> > > wondering why)
> > >
> > > I am glad that there is an interesting twist to this conversation,
> > > linking back to the old discussion we had about how to 'open
> > > scientific publishing' and make it more dynamic, faster and less
> > > stiff, without devoiding it of rigour and integrity (sounds like
> > > mission impossible, but change and transformation happen with or
> > > without us) we can anticipate, or follow events
> > >
> > > Pat H, I am not confusing academic good conduct - scientific
> domain is
> > > FULL of frauds (varying degrees) and scientists claiming for
> > > attribution for work developed by their juniors, fellows and peers
> > > This is standard practice. Includes notable nobel prizes.
> > > There is a full history, and such misappropriation of credit is
> > > unfortunately just another human tragedy. There is very little tha
> we
> > > can do about that
> > >
> > > When publishing work however, especially in a public forum, the
> > > author can kick ass (or at least try to), on IPR ground, in a
> public
> > > court of law - (no such thing as an academic tribunal is there?
> the
> > > equivalent of the court marshal for the sciences? )
> > >
> > >
> > > (also in reply to Pat C offline note about IPR):
> > > copyright law is part of Intellectual Property Law, and right of
> > > attribution, as contemplated in public lists forums can be
> protected
> > > by the law - whether nobody has bothered enforcing it yet, is
> another
> > > matter - I would not mind setting a precendent
> > >
> > > I really find online K exchanges as important complements of
> > > scientific knowledge exchange in rapidly evolving highly
> interactive ,
> > > interdisciplinary domains
> > >
> > > I have enough respect for the new media an for the communities who
> > > pioneer the adoption of new media, to place my faith on them, and
> help
> > > disperse the seeds of change,
> > >
> > > web based environments have their limitations, surely, but
> ultimately
> > > its down to how people use the things - and thanks to web based
> > > environments the bad habit of 'passing off' can become much more
> > > visible and addressable publicly
> > >
> > > so something is published, when i has been generated and it is
> > > publicly accesible, and has unique identifiers, and metadata, and
> a
> > > url, and it is valid, unique piece of knowledge (in as much as any
> k
> > > can be valid and unique) and can be protected, and opened up as
> > > required by the appropriate licensing agreement
> > >
> > > pdm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > At 11:49 AM -0400 5/6/08, paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >I think in this day of web 2.0 science and knowledge being
> > > exchanged
> > > > >dynamically, we may have find ways to reference scientific and
> > > > >academic contributions which come into being from mailing
> lists and
> > > > >wikis.
> > > >
> > > > Indeed, and this is an area which is in flux and rather
> > > indeterminate
> > > > right now.
> > > >
> > > > >This is what IPR policies are for, right?
> > > >
> > > > Wrong. You are confusing IPR with academic good-conduct rules
> of
> > > > acknowledgement and priority of publication. the former are
> > > primarily
> > > > legally debated and arise over money; the latter are
> academically
> > > > debated and arise over issues of professional reputation and
> such
> > > > matters as tenure.
> > > >
> > > > >....should we just agree that
> > > > >what is published should be acknowledged, irrespective of
> where it
> > > is
> > > > >published?
> > > >
> > > > That depends on what counts as 'publishing'. For academic
> purposes,
> > > > this is usually understood to mean publication in some kind of
> > > > peer-reviewed forum, which Wikis and blogs and so on are
> clearly
> > > not.
> > > > As you say, the Web 2.0 phenomenon may cause this to (slowly)
> > > change,
> > > > but academics are extremely conservative when it comes to how
> they
> > > > conduct their own internal affairs, and until such bodies as
> tenure
> > > > review committees start changing their attitudes, I do not see
> the
> > > > central notion of 'academic publication' changing much.
> > >
> > > it has changed already, with the proliferation of jounals,
> diversity
> > > of disciplines and varying criteria and thresholds of acceptance
> > > >
> > > > Academics are expected to be aware of publications in peer-
> reviewed
> > > > journals in their own field, so ignorance of prior publication
> there
> > > > is no excuse (and in any case, should be caught by later peer
> > > > reviewing); but nobody can be expected to read every wiki and
> blog
> > > > and newspaper and general-interest journal that comes out.
> > > >
> > > sorry, - I consider and value this forum as the most specialised,
> > > comprehensive and interactive
> > > source of knowledge generation in this field, albeit a bit casual
> and
> > > disorganized
> > > Pat, can you point me a journal where the
> > > > I have personally given up on even trying to maintain a
> publication
> > > > trail for my own ideas, and in more and more cases have even
> > > > abandoned any attempt to have them all attributed. My name does
> not
> > > > appear anywhere on the ISO Common Logic standard, which I wrote
> > > > almost entirely (apart from appendices B and C), and I'm cool
> with
> > > > that, as I had the option of being the Editor and turned it
> down.
> > > And
> > > > I know in several cases I have re-invented an idea which has
> then
> > > > been published and only afterwards has it been noted that it
> (or
> > > > something very like it) had in fact been previously known. In
> some
> > > > cases, it is virtually impossible to reconstruct an accurate
> > > > attribution history, as some ideas were kind of half-known to
> an
> > > > entire community for a while, and only became sharp and
> crystallized
> > > > later, over an extended period of debate and discussion. With
> the
> > > > wisdom of hindsight it can then be argued that some particular
> > > > publication was the 'first' to have the idea, but in fact the
> idea
> > > > had not really been gotten clear enough at that time to be
> fully
> > > > attributable to any one source. Logic programming is a good
> example.
> > > > The invention of the basic idea here has been attributed to R.
> > > > Kowalski, A. Colmerauer, C. Green (who received an award for
> it), C.
> > > > Hewitt and myself, and possibly to others. In fact, what is now
> > > > called Logic Programming evolved over a period of several
> years, and
> > > > all these people, and others, were involved in the discussions
> and
> > > > idea development at the time, all with different agendas and
> > > > emphases. Prolog was invented by Colmerauer; both Kowalski and
> > > myself
> > > > came up with the idea embodied in the slogan "algorithm= logic
> +
> > > > control"; Hewitt invented Planner, which was structurally
> similar to
> > > > Prolog in some ways but did not present itself explicitly as a
> > > logic;
> > > > and so on. One could list a dozen influential projects from
> that
> > > > period which were similar in some way and might be called 'the
> > > first'
> > > > logic programming system; and all these descriptions would have
> a
> > > > taint of truth, but all be ultimately wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Pat Hayes
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > -
> > > > IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home
> > > > 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office
> > > > Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax
> > > > FL 32502 (850)291 0667 cell
> > > > http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us
> > > > http://www.flickr.com/pathayes/collections
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > --
> > > Paola Di Maio
> > > School of IT
> > > www.mfu.ac.th
> > > *********************************************
> > >
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> --
> Paola Di Maio
> School of IT
> www.mfu.ac.th
> *********************************************
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