On 9/4/12 12:13 PM, doug foxvog wrote:
> On Mon, September 3, 2012 11:48, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>> On 9/3/12 10:02 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
>>> On Sun, Sep 02, 2012 at 10:43:22AM -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>>> Let's start with RDF, what is it actually?
>>> [...]
>>>> Its about the entity-attribute-value model enhanced with explicit
>>>> semantics.
>>> OK.
>>>> Yes! They decided that it was beneficial to
>>>> conflate RDF and Linked Data, even though history provides ample
>>>> evidence for the folly inherent in such thinking and execution
>>>> strategy.
>>> Aha. OK.
>>>> Linked Data is trying to achieve this goal. It isn't RDF syntax or
>>>> serialization specific. Its basically the entity-attribute-value model
>>>> enhanced with URIs and explicit semantics re. subject-predicate-object
>>>> or entity-attribute-value.
>>> You said that "RDF is about the entity-attribute-value model enhanced
>>> with
>>> explicit semantics" and that RDF should not be conflated with Linked
>>> Data and
>>> now you say that Linked Data "is basically the entity-attribute-value
>>> model
>>> enhanced with URIs and explicit semantics". I don't get it.
>> Because you already get it. What I mean by that comment is the fact that
>> you already understand what RDF actually is.
> I'm wondering if Kingsley gets Michael at this point. Michael is arguing
> against "what RDF actually is". Yet Kingsley goes back to a syntax
> discussion. (01)
Please. I do know the difference between a model and syntax. (02)
RDF has a model distinct from syntaxes such as: RDF/XML, Turtle, N3,
N-Triples, HTML5+MicroData, RDFa, TriX, TriG, NQuads etc.. (03)
Things exist, they do so in quantities, and said things are denoted
using a naming mechanism. Nothing exists on its own. Everything is in a
relationship. The aforementioned relationships are endowed with Semantics. (04)
We just want to express the above in a form that human and machine
comprehensible. Natural Language (imperfect as it is when written or
spoken) has worked for humans. Never been so for machines, so we are
trying to solve that problem. (05)
>
>> ...
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_data talks about "useful information
>>> using
>>> standard formats". This could be anything - for example 7-tuples with
>>> implicit
>>> semantics. I don't see why Linked Data should be about EAV and explicit
>>> semantics and what the difference to RDF would be.
>> Note point #3 reads:
>> Provide useful information about the thing when its URI is dereferenced,
>> using standard formats such as RDF/XML.
>> Of course in reality, we have to decompose further and
>> it should really mean:
> "should" ???
>
>> Useful information == structured data (entity-attribute-value or RDF
>> model constrained)
> Do you really think that only data using an RDF model is useful? How
> can you equate the two? (06)
I mean: utility comes from delivering value to a consumer. Thus, useful
information to a human or machine has to be something they can comprehend. (07)
Structured Data is useful. Data where Entity, Attribute, Attribute
Values, and the semantics are the triad/triples are discernible to
humans and/or machines is extremely useful. Even more so, when it scales
to the Web. (08)
>
> Here you say that the Linked Data description SHOULD be restricted to
> the RDF model. The Linked Data description is NOT so narrow. (09)
I said: its should be structured data. Data cannot be structured if it
isn't constrained by some kind of model. You have to be able to discern
(in the finest-grained mode possible) what constitutes the data in order
for it to be useful.
>
> This is what Michael is arguing against. This seems like the RDF
> zealotry that Kingsley was criticizing elsewhere.
>
>> Formats: various, which means a variety of syntaxes and serialization
>> formats for structured data.
> Structure does NOT require RDF structure. (010)
Of course it doesn't. But there's no harm in structure making an Entity,
its Attributes, Attribute Values, and Relationship Semantics discernible
to humans and/or machines. (011)
Kingsley
>
> -- doug f
>
>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Brunnbauer
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> (012)
-- (013)
Regards, (014)
Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
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