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Re: [ontolog-forum] Self Interest Ontology

To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: John Bottoms <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2012 17:04:57 -0400
Message-id: <4FCFC5F9.3050703@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Rich,

Several thought occur with respect to your questions.

1. re: "...enlisting an established power of force...
    In fact, that is a tautology. The power figures are there because of the princes they represent and are a proxy for their policies.

2. re: "If this tactic could be nullified,..."
    There is a long history of many and various ways that have attempted to do this. They go by the category of "restraint of trade".
    The Wright-Packman act also was an attempt to level the playing field. That act required that prices for a product be the same across the U.S. It was very easy to foil by arguing that different regions had different costs including such things as transport and storage. In the end corporations wound up charging what the markets will bear and the act lost its teeth.
    Standards also come under this consideration. Each standard raises the bar on some product or service, and includes some, while excluding others. It is hard to raise the standard(s) of living for a nation without preferring one vendor over another, particularly one that has strong lobbyists and SuperPAC's. I suspect that is why, in the past, the feds had standard tests for the rate at which ketchup must flow. Couldn't the market have sorted that out? Apparently, not.

3. This is, in my opinion, a good example of why ontologies should be done by, or in cooperation with, an SME. An earlier comment referred to gathering information about groups that exert influence as a foundation for a self-interest ontology. I would imagine that a few hours with a good economist would save a lot of time and effort over that approach. Perhaps someone could suggest a methodology for working with SME's to guide us on this one.

Though all of this, we should note that the 4th branch of government resides in the bureaucrats in Washington. I have seen them put a halt to some abuses of power by side-stepping the other branches.

These observations are given without prejudice. The same ideas have occurred to me in the past.

-John Bottoms
 FirstStar Systems
 Concord, MA USA (not far from Walden Pond)

On 6/6/2012 4:02 PM, Rich Cooper wrote:

John and Doug,

 

John wrote:

 

Just note that article I sent about the South Sea Bubble.  Shortly after they got their stamp of approval from the King, they lobbied to cripple the competition by forbidding any stock to be traded unless the corporation had a charter from the King.

 

That tactic – enlisting an established power of force to limit competition – seems to be repeated throughout history when any faction (corporate, NGO, political crusade, populist movement …) becomes strong enough to enlist the contemporary form of force (government, king, dictator, politician, …).  By eliminating competition, the ascendant group makes their position more secure. 

 

If this one tactic could be nullified, i.e. if ascendant groups could be prevented from complete dominance, then the remaining individuals could opt out of any proposed plan to deny them their equal justice. 

 

Does anyone have suggestions on how to nullify the ability of the top to compel the remainder into their plan?  That is what Friedman’s “Power to Choose” is actually about.  Forget the politics he espouses and just consider the opt-out tactic.  If that could be put into an amendment to the constitution, and enforced in nearly every case, it would put a stop to lots of this hijacking of public interest and public funds in the service of private interests. 

 

-Rich

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper

EnglishLogicKernel.com

Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2


From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 8:07 PM
To: doug@xxxxxxxxxx; [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Self Interest Ontology

 

Doug,

> John emphasizes that lobbyists enhance the perceived self-interest of
> their corporations by writing (laws and) regulations to harm their
> competition.

Just note that article I sent about the South Sea Bubble.  Shortly after they got their stamp of approval from the King, they lobbied to cripple the competition by forbidding any stock to be traded unless the corporation had a charter from the King.

Corporations have been doing that even before Adam Smith was born.  Those are the kinds of shenanigans that destroy the efficacy of the "invisible hand".  When the South Sea Bubble burst, the difficulty of forming new businesses prolonged the disastrous effects.

Big business is the natural enemy of small business.   Government has a tendency to take the side of big business because they give bigger "campaign contributions".  But when  you weaken the elected government, there are no barriers of any kind to stop big businesses from becoming the worst imaginable kind of de facto government.

Have you ever heard of the company towns run by mining corporations in the 19th century?  Just listen to the song "16 Tons".  That is called laissez faire.  That is why the Republicans passed the anti-trust laws.

John



 
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