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Re: [ontolog-forum] intangibles (was RE: Why most classificationsare fuz

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "AzamatAbdoullaev" <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 00:24:01 +0300
Message-id: <A2DB3F6DC9FD4B2CADA6362F4194CFE5@personalpc>
Dear Rich,
I much appreciate your true feelings and rich experience.
We both know, if you are hired, you are just a labour force to produce 
profit for the owner/capitalist. You are selling your human capital as a 
commodity thus establishing the wage labor/slavery relationships with your 
buyer/employer, with all the consequences, legal and financial.
To do you own things is a great privilege, priority, but also as a social 
responsibility. Since i left the USSR Academy of Sciences, or rather it 
stoped functioning for the well-known reasons, i've been lucky involved in 
producing the intangible/knowledge assets,  new ideas, concepts, theories, 
and models, as far as intellectual innovation is an engine of change..
Our Smart Sustainable Community Int. Group is comprising specialists and 
experts and investment consultants from Australia, Malaysia, EU, Russia, and 
USA. The goal is to develop intelligent sustainable communities of different 
scales, local, urban, regional, national and international. Among our 
prospective clients a national government and a district municipality. But 
first, as a showcase, we initated a local large-scale master development 
project modeled as an ideal prototype of smart ecological city.
The burden of our life is, you have to create your innovative market, 
business strategy, human capital, and quality jobs, however hard exhausting 
taxing and risky your enterprise might be. After all, enterprise, as 
"readiness to embark on bold new ventures", is what really moves our 
inertial world.    (01)

Azamat Abdoullaev    (02)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] intangibles (was RE: Why most 
classificationsare fuzzy)    (03)

> Dear John,
> You and I don't have jobs either; we work at what
> we choose to do, our own way, on our own schedules
> and with whatever tools and materials we choose to
> use.  So I would say that the prognosticators who
> said we would find ways to use our spare time were
> only wrong in what they thought we would do - we
> still work, but at what we choose to do, not at
> what we are compelled to do.
> I don't know what Azamat and Ron do for a living,
> but I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same
> kind of thing - whatever they want to do to earn
> what they need, all without steady jobs.  Many of
> us seem to have chosen that if we cared enough to
> do so.  Personally, I worked at two jobs for ten
> or twelve years before starting a consulting
> business, and I have had jobs off and on whenever
> the cleptocrats ruin the economy, (Carter!) but it
> keeps coming back, and I keep doing businesses
> when it does.  I bet the same is true for you and
> Azamat and Ron, though you did say you worked at
> IBM for a while.  I take it you enjoyed it enough
> to stay till retirement, and then decided you
> couldn't just watch movies and play shuffleboard
> all day long.  At 66, I still don't even know the
> rules for shuffleboard.
> Jobs are still available, and they pay well if
> they're good jobs, but the ROIs right now don't
> favor hiring people - with all the payroll taxes,
> employees are too expensive for most business
> owners, which is why most businesses are small,
> sometimes family owned and family operated.
> Consulting and contracting is what we technical
> people do when we get tired of having a boss.
> It's more fun to please a customer who pays you
> better for short engagements than to constantly
> please a boss who is harried by paperwork and by
> plenty of other employees to place for marginal
> profits.
> To paraphrase, the very notion of a job is what I
> think is obsolete.  With nearly all productivity
> so high, there is no real need to work when you
> can have fun, run a business, and make enough
> money to be happy doing what you choose.  Of
> course, there are people who do take jobs, but
> many of them do it because they choose to.  They
> want to keep a low profile, limit responsibility,
> and concentrate on family, friends and fun.  I
> work twelve to sixteen hours a day when I have to
> (rarely), but it's only for a short while, and
> then I can take days off, even weeks off, and
> spend the time however I want - I bet you, Azamat
> and Ron do too.
> So I don't foresee riots and entitlements as the
> future, I see all of us doing "service" work like
> the MDs, attorneys, construction crews, and we
> business owner/operators, and so many others today
> who prefer to contract our work, not to get a
> regular paycheck under duress.  Schools should be
> teaching how to entrepreneur, how to negotiate
> contracts, how to market and sell instead of all
> that political correctness nonsense.
> My dad worked a job for decades, only to be
> unjobbed at age 58 when the government decided to
> terminate his employer (RCA) from the Cape Kennedy
> service contract it had held at 2% profit per year
> for decades.  NASA and the Air Force hired a
> different company every year from then on to
> supposedly manage the work more competitively.
> Congress made it do so.  It didn't turn out to
> make economic sense of course, but the people who
> had jobs at RCA, when old, couldn't get placed in
> the new companies (age was grounds for refusal
> purposes then), so the government got young people
> it had to train to do the job the old guys had
> been doing well.
> But who knows?  You may turn out to be right, but
> I truly hope not.  My grandkids will live in that
> world.  My grandfather was a sheriff in Lamar
> County Mississippi, and postmaster of the same
> county, while he ran a farm with (believe it or
> not) cows, corn and veggies he grew.  Then
> Roosevelt screwed up the economy and turned people
> of my dad's generation into job holders instead of
> business people like they had been working and
> living with their families since the Mayflower
> landed.
> Our problem today is that the government has
> gotten too good at taking away our livelihood and
> taxing what they can't take and regulating us out
> of work it chooses to reserve for big companies.
> If the government did what little it really should
> be doing, most people would be able to be self
> employed, self directed, and self fulfilling
> again.  But only the tea party seems to know that.
> Republicans are too busy coddling the big
> companies, while Democrats are too busy buying
> union votes with union money extracted by force
> from union members, and making government jobs
> into unions that require the job holders to join.
> But that's been the game for a long, long time.
> Those who can do, those who can't run for office.
> -Rich
> Sincerely,
> Rich Cooper
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of John F. Sowa
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 6:29 PM
> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] intangibles (was RE:
> Why most classifications are fuzzy)
> Azamat, Rich, and Ron,
> All of your comments are well considered from
> various points of view,
> but there are forces at work that are likely to
> make all of them (and
> many others) obsolete.  Adam Smith, Karl Marx,
> John Maynard Keynes,
> and Ayn Rand could not imagine the kind of world
> we live in today.
> About half a century ago, people noticed that
> automation was increasing
> productivity so rapidly that the 21st century
> would be totally different
> from the mid 20th c.  There were glorious
> predictions that productivity
> would be so high that people would only have to
> work 2 hours per day to
> do all the work that had to be done.  And the big
> question was what to
> do with all that leisure time that everybody would
> have.
> The pundits who made those predictions were partly
> right.  Productivity
> has increased rapidly.  If the same proportion of
> the population were
> still engaged in factory production, they really
> could produce many
> manufactured goods with only 2 hours of work per
> day.  But the people
> who owned the factory had no desire to maintain
> the same number of
> workers.  Instead, they fired most of them and
> made the remaining
> workers spend even more time working for the same
> wages.
> The first people to be fired were factory workers.
> But more and more
> office workers and their managers have been fired.
> There are very few
> secretaries and receptionists, since nearly
> everybody does their own
> typing and messaging.  Telephone operators are
> long gone.  Even people
> called stock brokers have vanished.  Anybody who
> owns stocks does their
> own trading in a fraction of the time and cost of
> calling a broker.
> Our work on artificial intelligence, ontology, and
> related fields is
> accelerating the transition.  More and more
> managerial jobs will become
> obsolete and unnecessary.  An ever smaller and
> smaller workforce will
> be able to produce all the goods anybody needs.
> There will still be jobs to be done.  Those are
> primarily service jobs.
> Unfortunately, very few people who need those
> services will be able
> to pay for them.  The number of unemployed and
> unemployable people
> will escalate from 10 to 20%, later to 30, 40, 50,
> 60& or more.
> I don't know the exact dates when these stages
> will be met, but it
> will certainly be within this century.  Perhaps
> within the next 40
> to 50 years.  Rioting will get very bad when
> unemployment hits 30%,
> and that stage might not be very far away.
> AA
>> the elite also has its self-interest, which is
> fully domineering
>> over common individuals...
> What elites?  There are many formerly highly-paid
> executives, who are
> unemployable.  Many bankers are still getting high
> bonuses, but banking
> is the easiest thing to automate.  They'll soon go
> the way of the former
> stock brokers.  Of course, there will be fewer and
> fewer people at the
> top of each of those companies, who will rake in
> billions.  But as we
> have seen, banks can fail, and the elites at those
> banks will have to
> scramble for fewer and fewer elite positions.
> RC
>> Government, as someone wise once said, is
> inherently evil (because
>> it uses force to have its laws and regulations
> obeyed), yet absolutely
>> essential (because we don't play well together
> without supervision).
> Churchill said that democracy is the worst
> possible form of government,
> except for all the others.  And if you want to see
> what happens without
> government look at the various trouble spots
> around the world, such as
> Somalia.
> RW
>> some sort of revolution when the majority of the
> people decide that
>> a radical redistribution of wealth by force is
> in their self interest.
> There will certainly be lots of rioting.
> Unfortunately, the people who
> riot won't have a clue about who or what to riot
> against.
> People say that entitlements are bad.  But maybe
> our only hope is
> to develop some workable system of entitlements,
> but it will have
> to totally different from anything we have today.
> John
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