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Re: [ontolog-forum] Semantic Systems

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "FERENC KOVACS" <f.kovacs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 07:45:55 +0100
Message-id: <75D22CD7DA6A4533A27902FE28798576@Swindon>
Rich,    (01)

The issue is not to define "what", but "how". Existence is experienced and 
everything we experience in spacetime  we experience its absence as well, 
because everything is i constant motion and change, and we notice changes at 
our scale. As soon as we have started to use a language our former and 
current iconostic experience got labelled with a word, which is a form to 
help us make a refernce to a chunk of reality. The content is still 
experience and as such it is different with people as long as they are not 
taking up the very the same posiitn in space and time, which is not 
possible, of course
Now having said that with regard to existence and non existence we must also 
be aware of motion, start and stop (end) whether we agree on FO or not. For 
us it is difficult or impossible to focus on two items in sight, therefore 
we must freeze the input picture and by doing so we stop time. Space in  our 
mind is not sensed anyway, so it is easy to be fooled that our mind works in 
a temporal and spatial vacuum. It does not. So whatever our mind creates 
through MENTAL OPERATIONS, it is in principle marked by space and time 
identifiers, the only real uniqueq identifiers in this world. So our mind 
produces concepts, whch have form and content, while the universe creates 
objects, which also have form and content. We produce new objects from 
existing objects by assembling, the universe creates objects from nothing - 
the form and name of something we do not know.
When we have concepts to identify the chunks of reality, we have verbal 
forms to be used to maike a picture, which is the clue to undersatnding or 
making sense. But verbal forms are not suitable for assembly, and content 
must be aligned with the use of forms between the speakers of any langauge. 
Now since forms have content, but it is the form or pattern that shows the 
limits and the boundaries of content, the content of verbal forms must 
provide for such identification of form. But unfortunatelly, the concept of 
meaning, context and the commuication model of a bargaining situatio where 
we should arive at an agreement as to th sense of any form, or concept s not 
dealt properly among ontologists. The most serious problem is that you want 
a network, a lattice of frozen dots to represent an ever moving rality, 
where time is the most important concept despite the fact that yiou may 
ignore it sometimes just as any other concepts.
So not seeig how time may be used in FO properly and putting event in the 
cebtre with axioms may serve well to design robots, but a dumb robot only.
Regards
Frank    (02)





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Cooper" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Semantic Systems    (03)


> What I am steering this thread toward (please play along) is the 
> description
> of how logical function can have evolved.  We start with a recognition of
> existence - so far so good.  But what is it that we are actually 
> recognizing
> to exist?  If we recognize it AGAIN, does that mean we have discovered 
> time,
> or at least ordering, but how do we know that this IT is the same as the 
> IT
> we saw the last time?  That drives toward a required ability to 
> discriminate
> among things, i.e. a predicate.
>
> I would like to see a full philosophical structuring of this very basic
> thing we call logic.
>
> -Rich
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich Cooper
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>
>
>
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>     (04)


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