I am not sure that this is any less helpful than much of the discussion
in the forum. (01)
The description of the project seemed to be based on factual
information. If not, the opinions should be rebutted in the usual way. (02)
The editorializing about motives is not overly constructive but subject
to discussion, I suppose, if there really are fundamental issues with
the goals and approaches of the project that are not being addressed.
If public money is being expended, the scientific and academic community
has a role to play is reviewing the projects and pointing out where
there is room for improvement or where there is serious problems
regarding allocation of resources. (03)
If this project does have flaws in its approach, this is a good group of
people to point that out. If the flaws are only in the eyes of the
beholder, I suspect that the alleged flaws will be defended by the
community. (04)
We also have to be a bit tolerant of language tone when we know that the
speaker is not working in their first language. (05)
Ron (06)
Peter Yim wrote:
> Azamat,
>
>
> May I request that you take this conversation elsewhere. This mailing
> list, or for that matter the Ontolog-CWE, is not the right place for
> it.
>
> This is the "collaborative work environment" for the ONTOLOG community
> (who is set out to do what is in their charter
> - see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidB ).
>
> Your post has fails to demonstrate a spirit of collaboration, nor is
> it helping advance our charter.
>
>
> Regards. =ppy
>
> Peter P. Yim
> Co-convener, ONTOLOG
> --
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Azamat <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Stefano wrote:
>> Please visit the project's web site
>> http://www.neon-project.org/web-content/
>>
>> (and download their freely available toolkit) to find out more about what
>> they are doing and how far along they've got.
>>
>> I visited and what i found there let me share. Up to now, only about 170
>> downloads, the size of the tools more than 100Mb, no any sensible
>> documentation. When is FAQed what kind of beast is NeOn, its truly answered:
>> "The NeOn Toolkit is built on the code-base of OntoStudio, the
>> commercial ontology engineering environment of ontoprise . There might be
>> occasional references to OntoStudio in the documentation or in the GUI.
>> Please replace them mentally with "NeOn Toolkit":
>> http://www.neon-toolkit.org/content/view/25/42/
>>
>>
>> As such, there is no original NeOn toolkit but so-called OntoStudio, which
>> the EC "bought" for Euro 14, 7 m. No any sensible ontology but a worn OEE of
>> Ontoprise, spamming my email for several years. There is a neon toolkit?
>> Now wonder what kind of business you are doing there with Roberto Ciceroni
>> as two Scientific Project Officers of Information Society and Media
>> Directorate-General, Knowledge and Content Technologies. Maybe the
>> Commissioner Potocnik knows?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Azamat Abdoullaev
>> http://www.eis.com.cy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Original Message -----
>> From: <Stefano.BERTOLO@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Cc: <e.motta@xxxxxxxxxx>; <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:28 PM
>> Subject: [ontolog-forum] NeOn projct goals
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Azamat,
>>>
>>> I am the project officer responsible for project NeOn, which you mention
>>> below.
>>>
>>> NeOn argues that just as in software engineering software artifacts can be
>>> built around libraries and components developed at different times by
>>> different people (and evolving over time), so it should be possible for
>>> the same to happen in knowledge engineer around ontologies as modular
>>> components.
>>>
>>> NeOn is an environment designed to make it easier for knowledge engineer
>>> Jane to find and integrate as components in her ontology other ontologies
>>> independently developed by knowledge engineers Mary, Sue and Alice.
>>>
>>> Please visit the project's web site
>>>
>>> http://www.neon-project.org/web-content/
>>>
>>> (and download their freely available toolkit) to find out more about what
>>> they are doing and how far along they've got.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> stefano
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> Stefano Bertolo, Ph.D. Project Officer
>>> European Commission Information Society DG, Unit E2
>>> Mail: EUFO 1/293 - rue Alcide de Gasperi - L-2920 Luxembourg
>>> Office: Euroforum building - 10, rue Robert Stumper - L-2557 Luxembourg
>>> Tel. +352.4301.37435 Fax. +352.4301.38099
>>> stefano.bertolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> DG INFSO/E2: http://cordis.europa.eu/info-management/
>>> The views expressed in this e-mail are not necessarily those of
>>> the European Commission
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Azamat
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:47 PM
>>>> To: [ontolog-forum]
>>>> Cc: John F. Sowa
>>>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] semantics of the mKR language
>>>>
>>>> John wrote"
>>>> AA> Mao said: "Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools
>>>>
>>>>>> of thought contend is the policy for promoting progress in the arts
>>>>>> and the sciences ...".
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's a good slogan. But there's a big difference between actions
>>>>> and slogans. Remember that about 40 years ago, Mao let
>>>>>
>>>> loose the Red
>>>>
>>>>> Guards, who tried to destroy the "flowers" (books, art work, and
>>>>> scholars) of several millennia of Chinese arts and sciences.
>>>>>
>>>> That's right, John.
>>>>
>>>> For the sake of historical truth, Mao is still numbered among
>>>> the most important figures of the modern world history. The
>>>> reason of his socio-political programs, as Cultural
>>>> Revolution, was a partial political ontology, Legalism, one of
>>>> Hundred School of Thought, and the desire to model the first
>>>> Chinese Emperor, Qin. The legalistic ontology postulates that
>>>> humans are basically evil, and good society comes from a set of laws
>>>> and regulations and totalitarian bureaucracy. Reading and
>>>> scholarship are
>>>> asocial, while farming and weaving are the means to correct
>>>> humans. A comprehensive system of laws, administration
>>>> techniques, position and power, military activities and
>>>> economic expansion are the only means to a just prosperous society.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for RHM, he has an honest open mind with sincere intentions
>>>> to move things. Nowadays, it is not easy to find somebody
>>>> seeking not monetary profit but just the pride of accomplishment.
>>>>
>>>> His generall terminology is not a big problem, when giving a
>>>> proper interpretation. Also, his research is not any load to
>>>> the public, unlike those eating the public funds without
>>>> knowing what they are to deliver. Here is a 'rationale' i met
>>>> on the research page of one such project costing Euro
>>>> 14 m:
>>>>
>>>> [Most of the existing practices for the development of
>>>> ontologies focus on a single ontology, on a global consistency
>>>> of such an ontology, and, in principle, on a linear
>>>> development. This is very restrictive- it is as if we all
>>>> communicated in a single language and completely disregarded
>>>> our cultural or historical specifics. Single ontology means
>>>> single viewpoint on the problems, situations and solutions. If
>>>> in our everyday life we use many different viewpoints, why
>>>> can't designers of semantic applications and engineers
>>>> developing knowledge models do the same? In NeOn, we see
>>>> several dimensions, in which the existing single-ontology
>>>> style of work need to be enriched].
>>>>
>>>> Which objective the whole project is aimed for: arguing for
>>>> the single ontology or agaist it? That's a real puzzle, not
>>>> Chinese puzzle. I wish to be mistaken, but it sounds as the
>>>> folks don't know that they don't know what they are talking
>>>> about and doing. I am afraid that many of these people are
>>>> among (ontology) reviewers, passing judgments on other
>>>> projects. That's a real harm.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Azamat
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John F. Sowa" <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] semantics of the mKR language
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Azamat,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was trying to point out that there are many flowers blooming
>>>>> in the context fields, but most of them have not been adequately
>>>>> identified, analyzed, defined, and classified.
>>>>>
>>>>> AA> John wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> JFS> The way you [RHM] use it in mKR falls roughly in the ballpark
>>>>>
>>>>>> of various theories, but I and many other people who subscribe to
>>>>>> this forum believe that your discussions about it are so vague that
>>>>>> it doesn't come close to being considered an even marginally useful
>>>>>> "theory".
>>>>>>
>>>>> What I was saying is that just adding an at-phrase that represents
>>>>> some undefined "view" does not constitute a theory. Everybody
>>>>> knows that different people have different views, and those views
>>>>> are important for interpreting what they say.
>>>>>
>>>>> Merely acknowledging that fact does not add to our knowledge about
>>>>> context, and claiming that mKR has a theory of context because of
>>>>> its "at view" phrase is misleading, confusing, or false advertising.
>>>>>
>>>>> AA> Mao said: "Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a
>>>>>
>>>> hundred schools
>>>>
>>>>>> of thought contend is the policy for promoting progress in the arts
>>>>>> and the sciences ...".
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's a good slogan. But there's a big difference between actions
>>>>> and slogans. Remember that about 40 years ago, Mao let loose the
>>>>> Red Guards, who tried to destroy the "flowers" (books, art work,
>>>>> and scholars) of several millennia of Chinese arts and sciences.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe that mKR poses a threat to the arts and sciences,
>>>>> but I was suggesting that Dick might make a more useful contribution
>>>>> if he tried to clarify his claims about context.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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> (07)
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