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## Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards

 To: "[ontolog-forum]" paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:03:02 +0700
 ```Hi Chris    (01) yes, the problem of definitions surely    (02) but not only that, I think we have more fundamental problems the kind of problems that generally ontology tries to address/solve that is , reconciling a single version of the truth..    (03) I think ontology is also defined somwhere as 'a set of relations' (cant rememebr where) I have checked quickly and it looks lilke most definitions include the word http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+ontology&btnG=Google+Search&meta=    (04) I think it has been established elsewhere that ontology is a set of logical relations (cant remember whose definition)    (05) You can interpret the definition of 'set of relations' mathematiclally or not, but that would not change its meaning    (06) I    (07) > If you regard relationships as axioms then this is true. > My guess is that for mathematicians, axioms are not the same things as > relations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom    (08) whatever way we regard them, I think that any ontological relationship is by definition a logical relationship    (09) > > I think "an ontology without relationships is more of a taxonomy" is > But "an ontology without axioms is more of a taxonomy" is more debatable.    (010) OK > Furthermore, one needs to be careful whether one is talking about the > representation or what is being represented. If I have an axiom about > something, this represents (let us say) a set of states of affairs, it is > not the actual set of states of affairs.    (011) But we cannot have any set unless there is a relationship between the elements of the set, that is where logic is intrisically    (012) >I do not see how it gets you to saying ontology includes logic.    (013) It looks to me that logic is inherent, intrinsic to what there is, therefore to ontology, as a description of it. I am not sure 'includes' is the best way to say it, but surely, its part of the glue that builds the conceptual scaffolding    (014) If you take out the logic that makes up the relationships between all the elements and components of an ontology, all we end up with is a pile of conceptual scrap    (015) But please share further insights..    (016) > >> PDM >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Chris Partridge >> wrote: >> > Hi Paola, >> > >> >> > >> >> > A less simple answer would have to do with the relationship >> between >> >> logic >> >> > (inference) and ontology. Traditionally logic studies inference >> and >> >> ontology >> >> > existence. (I realise that in CS ontology (or as Pat called it WC3 >> >> ontology) >> >> > inference plays a big part.) >> >> > >> >> >> >> it strikes me that you write this as I am working on it >> >> (its either echelon, or colletive consciouness, or both) >> >> >> >> however, I cannot see the sharp distinction between the two, cause >> >> ontology (existence) includes logic in its axioms >> >> therefore I am lead to conclude that logic is part of ontology >> >> >> >> if we consider axioms (and constraints) necessary to inference >> >> then the two are dependent >> >> >> >> isnt that so? >> > >> > I must apologise, I am afraid I do not understand your comments. >> > I do not see how "ontology (existence) includes logic in its axioms". >> > Ontology, in the philosophical sense I am using it, is a set of >> things. It >> > does not have axioms, though I suppose one could argue axioms are >> objects in >> > some (mathematical or logical) ontology. I suspect we are using terms >> in >> > different ways. >> > >> > Also, I was not arguing for there being no relationship between >> ontology and >> > logic. A hundred years ago people like Russell and Husserl saw logic >> as >> > being the language that could be used to describe an ontology. >> However, over >> > the last 100 years or so, the notion of logic has been refined to the >> study >> > of inference. I suspect there is a relationship, but have not managed >> to >> > find much material describing it, so if anyone knows of some ... >> > >> > Regards, >> > Chris >> > >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ >> >> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog- >> forum/ >> >> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ >> >> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ >> >> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J >> >> To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ >> > Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog- >> forum/ >> > Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ >> > Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ >> > To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J >> > To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > >> > >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ >> Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/ >> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ >> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ >> To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J >> To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ > Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/ > Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ > Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ > To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J > To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >    (017) -- Paola Di Maio **********************************    (018) Forthcoming    (019) i-Semantics 2009, 2 - 4 September 2009, Graz, Austria. www.i-semantics.tugraz.at    (020) SEMAPRO 2009, Malta http://www.iaria.org/conferences2009/RegistrationSEMAPRO09.html    (021) _________________________________________________________________ Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/ Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/ Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/ Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J To Post: mailto:ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    (022) ```
 Current Thread Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, (continued) Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Len Yabloko Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, John Black Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Matthew West Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Chris Partridge Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, John Black Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Chris Partridge Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, paola . dimaio Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Chris Partridge Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, paola . dimaio Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Chris Partridge Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, paola . dimaio <= Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Matthew West Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, paola . dimaio Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Chris Partridge Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, paola . dimaio Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Pat Hayes Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, paola . dimaio Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Pat Hayes Message not available[ontolog-forum] Fwd: Next steps in using ontologies as standards, paola . dimaio Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, Matthew West Re: [ontolog-forum] Next steps in using ontologies as standards, paola . dimaio