The trick is to find the organization in the US Government that would
fund such an effort. It's not DARPA. They don't see a new technology in
such an effort, just the machinations of using existing technologies.
It's not DISA, they want to field and maintain systems today. The
Service labs (AFRL, ONR, SPAWAR) are not going to jump on this bandwagon
either. So there goes DoD... Any other USG contenders? NIH? NSF? (01)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Patrick
Cassidy
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:55 PM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fw: Next steps in using ontologies as
standards (02)
Ron:
>> > The 100 guys in a room model will work if each guy shows up with
his
> organization's $100,000.
I think it will also work if they each get Uncle Sam's 100,000, with
the
condition that they do something with the resulting ontology and report
their results and any perceived problems. That is what I mean by
"kick-starting" a user community. The use of the ontology in some
application (broadly construed as any program that will test the
ontology
beyond the simple data in -data out function of a database) probably
needs
to be a precondition of funding, but there may be other actions that
will
help evolve a user community, such as developing some helpful utility to
make use easier. Such issues can be discussed and agreed on before the
project starts by those who want to participate. Non-funded
participants
should also be welcome.
The result has to be public domain, no one should have to pay
anything
for access to the common ontology. Proprietary extensions can be
developed
by anyone and sold, but can't be part of the common language, maintained
by
an executive committee after the initial phase. (03)
Pat (04)
Patrick Cassidy
MICRA, Inc.
908-561-3416
cell: 908-565-4053
cassidy@xxxxxxxxx (05)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ron Wheeler
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:11 PM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fw: Next steps in using ontologies as
> standards
>
> I think that there might be justification for certain industry groups
> to
> get together to produce their own "standard" ontologies.
> The 100 guys in a room model will work if each guy shows up with his
> organization's $100,000.
> Then you know that there is a problem to be solved and a commitment to
> at least consider using the results.
>
> Without that, I am afraid that the output will be another unused
system.
>
> Ron
>
> Rich Cooper wrote:
> > Patrick Cassidy wrote:
> > ======================= ====================== ===============
> > ... A full language, including
> > the basic vocabulary , is useful mostly for communication among
> agents. To
> > be useful there need to be multiple agents that communicate using
the
> > language.
> > ======================= ====================== ===============
> >
> > In nearly every database product, there is room for multiple agents,
> > typically at least one on every desktop connected to the database
> server.
> > However, that is within the walls of an individual developer (or
> business,
> > or software product vendor). The vocabulary for that implementation
> type is
> > based on the relations, views, columns and domains of the
application.
> All
> > modern DBMSs support multiple concurrent users which speak that
> vocabulary.
> >
> >
> > But getting multiple organizations to use the SAME vocabulary in
> their
> > agents is the issue we're discussing. So I'm guessing, in the
above,
> that
> > you mean multiple agents from different organizations, preferably
> those
> > without political cross relationships. I don't see that happening
in
> the
> > current circumstances. It simply isn't a practical, cost effective
> approach
> > for the organizations.
> >
> > Patrick Cassidy Again:
> > ======================= ====================== ===============
> > But adopting a language by a natural process of accumulation of
> > users (from the first two) can be a very long process - it probably
> took
> > thousands of years for human languages to evolve their current
> ability to
> > describe the world.
> > ======================= ====================== ===============
> >
> > Human language appears to have been extremely geographically local.
> Only
> > tribes of people in contact with other tribes near them had a chance
> to
> > develop and practice common vocabularies. As the size of tribes
grew
> into
> > large volumes of people, many (not just one) common vocabularies
> began to
> > emerge. I expect the same general description to be true of
> ontologies when
> > they begin to be generally fruitful. At this time in 2009, only
> small
> > groups use the same ontology. Unlike natural languages, it isn't
> necessary,
> > or even useful to have your competitors use the same vocabulary.
The
> best
> > way to change that situation is to find a very large customer with
> deep
> > pockets who will demand that all business partners use the same
> ontology.
> >
> > Computer science standards have emerged when there are competitors,
> and one
> > customer is large, and economically equipped to demand consistent
> interfaces
> > from all partners. Wal-Mart, for example, requires that their
> suppliers
> > interface electronically and keep the shelf inventories stocked
> through
> > automated timely shipments. If you want to sell through Wal-Mart,
> this is
> > the only way you can do it. But Wal-Mart is only one organization.
> >
> > Wal-Mart doesn't care about the ontology of the products. It
doesn't
> > distinguish between baseballs and cantaloupes, televisions and
> chewing gums.
> > Only an inventory part number designates one product from another.
> What
> > would Wal-Mart gain by having more ontological insight into its
> products,
> > stores, employees and so on?
> >
> >
> >
> > Patrick Cassidy Again:
> > ======================= ====================== ===============
> > We can do it a lot faster if we kick-start the user community by
> having a
> > large group of developers and users agree on the basic vocabulary.
> It can
> > evolve from that point, but to evolve, anything has to first
survive.
> > Having a starting community of over a hundred users gives the
> standard a
> > chance to survive and show its capabilities.
> > ======================= ====================== ===============
> >
> > User communities generally don't like being kick-started. What's in
> it for
> > them? Ontologists believe that ontologies are important, but users
> believe
> > that their organization's mission is important. According to the
> theory of
> > constraints, organizations only focus well on one constraint at a
> time. So
> > why would any user community refocus a major investment into
> ontologies?
> >
> > I don't see it happening now. The real question is what situation
is
> needed
> > to make an ontology-based product highly valuable to ONE
ORGANIZTION?
> That
> > might be a likely way in which standard ontologies can become widely
> used.
> > That organization also has to have money, and a mission that is
> consistent
> > with ontological representation. Other than organizations with
> critical
> > functions inside the US government, I don't see any organization
that
> can
> > fill that role. What is the gain they obtain through use of
> ontologies?
> >
> > -Rich
> >
> > rich AT englishlogickernel DOT COM
> >
> >
> >
> >
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