Duane, (01)
While Pat didn't use the word "wrong" I'm not sure anyone one else did either.
Here is what the tread said: (02)
( think it was Chris that said;)
>> Fair enough, though I think that over time the beliefs in question
>> *do* become psychologically unshakeable, as the ability to think
>> critically is lost and one's worldview becomes fixed and ossified.
>> At that point the marginalization or destruction of "nonbelievers" is
>> no longer rooted in a fear of being wrong but rather in a sort of
>> hardwired irrationality. (03)
Pat replied
> I agree, .... (04)
I added, in agreement: (05)
> Almost makes one believe in the idea of modular, independent intelligence
> which is not easily reached by our general, rational ability which is built on
> top of these earlier ones (in an evolutionary sense). (06)
I hope this was careful enough. :-) (07)
Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
Spatial Ontology Community of Practice (SOCoP)
http://www.visualknowledge.com/wiki/socop
Executive Secretariat
Semantic Technology
EM&I
Suite 350 455 Spring park Place
Herndon VA 20170
703-742-0585 (08)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Duane Nickull
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:55 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Model or Reality (09)
As much as I personally disagree with the concept of a fatwah, it is not
wrong. "Wrong" is just an opinion and not necessarily fact unless you
define wrong as some magical consensus of society. Until that is done, it
is all just opinion, story, etc. Of course in our society and this context
I don't think anyone would agree that the concept of fatwah against Mr.
Rushdie is "good", but it helps to be able to differentiate fact from story. (010)
"The person has lost their ability to think critically" = someone's opinion,
not fact. How do you know he has not thought about this critically and come
to that conclusion based on his reality? (011)
Pat was very careful to avoid stating the person was full of bunk. He just
stated what the person believed. (012)
Duane
(No flames please. I am not condoning violence etc.) (013)
On 8/9/07 10:43 AM, "Gary Berg-Cross" <gary.berg-cross@xxxxxxxx> wrote: (014)
>
>
> Pat provides a example of a person losing the ability to think critically as
> their worldview becomes fixed and ossified ("I once met an apparently
> reasonable, rational, intelligent western
> academic who had adopted Islam as an adult and
> who told me, as though it was the most natural
> thing in the world, kind of obvious really, that
> given the chance he would kill Salman Rushdie,
> because there was a fatwah on his head. ...")
>
> Almost makes one believe in the idea of modular, independent intelligence
> which is not easily reached by our general, rational ability which is built on
> top of these earlier ones (in an evolutionary sense).
>
> Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
> Spatial Ontology Community of Practice (SOCoP)
> http://www.visualknowledge.com/wiki/socop
> Executive Secretariat
> Semantic Technology
> EM&I
> Suite 350 455 Spring park Place
> Herndon VA 20170
> 703-742-0585
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pat Hayes
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:31 PM
> To: Christopher Menzel
> Cc: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Model or Reality
>
>> On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:58 PM, Kathryn Blackmond Laskey wrote:
>>> I have known a few "true believers" who grew to question beliefs they
>>> had once considered unshakeable. In retrospect, they agreed that if
>>> their beliefs had really been all that unshakeable, they wouldn't
>>> have felt such a need to stamp out the opposition.
>>>
>>> It is those whose beliefs are NOT unshakeable, but who WANT them to
>>> be unshakeable because they are afraid of having their worldview
>>> turned upside down, who have a psychological need to marginalize or
>>> destroy those who don't agree with them.
>>
>> Fair enough, though I think that over time the beliefs in question
>> *do* become psychologically unshakeable, as the ability to think
>> critically is lost and one's worldview becomes fixed and ossified.
>> At that point the marginalization or destruction of "nonbelievers" is
>> no longer rooted in a fear of being wrong but rather in a sort of
>> hardwired irrationality.
>
> I agree, though I don't think it necessarily
> takes very long. I once met an apparently
> reasonable, rational, intelligent western
> academic who had adopted Islam as an adult and
> who told me, as though it was the most natural
> thing in the world, kind of obvious really, that
> given the chance he would kill Salman Rushdie,
> because there was a fatwah on his head. Which
> meant that to kill him was God's will and any
> Muslim's holy duty. He was quite calm about it,
> but he wasn't joking. Then we went on talking
> about computer science and had lunch. So although
> true believers can lose their faith, the reverse
> can also happen.
>
> Pat
>
>>
>> -chris (015)
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