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Re: [ontolog-forum] Model or Reality

To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Christopher Menzel <cmenzel@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:22:14 -0500
Message-id: <67148419-AECE-4FE7-B809-40440CD34FA4@xxxxxxxx>
On Aug 9, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Duane Nickull wrote:
> As much as I personally disagree with the concept of a fatwah, it  
> is not
> wrong.  "Wrong" is just an opinion and not necessarily fact unless you
> define wrong as some magical consensus of society.  Until that is  
> done, it
> is all just opinion, story, etc.  Of course in our society and this  
> context
> I don't think anyone would agree that the concept of fatwah against  
> Mr.
> Rushdie is "good",    (01)

???  Pat just gave an example of such a person.    (02)

> but it helps to be able to differentiate fact from story.    (03)

Indeed.  I strikes me that on your view, everything is story.    (04)

> "The person has lost their ability to think critically" = someone's  
> opinion,
> not fact.    (05)

Nonsense.  Anyone who is no longer willing or able to consider that a  
given contingent belief -- especially a belief about gods and what  
they expect of us -- might be false and hence ought not to be  
believed has by definition ceased to think critically.  Pat's lunch  
companion was obviously such a person.  It is a fact therefore that  
the person had, at least with regard to his beliefs about his  
obligation to kill Rushdie, lost or given up his ability to think  
critically.    (06)

> How do you know he has not thought about this critically and come  
> to that conclusion based on his reality?    (07)

One might rationally come to that conclusion (though I admit it is  
difficult for me to understand how one could do it in an open  
society).  What is irrational is believing something so grave and  
consequential with a certainty that resists doubt.    (08)

> Pat was very careful to avoid stating the person was full of bunk.   
> He just stated what the person believed.    (09)

Trust me on this one: Even though he's never told me this story, I  
can tell you with full assurance that Pat believed the person in  
question to be completely off his nut.    (010)

> Duane
> (No flames please.  I am not condoning violence etc.)    (011)

Nonetheless your view leaves you with utterly no rational grounds for  
condemning it.    (012)

-chris    (013)

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