the first 'incoherence' has a much more mundane solution: perhaps god
has quite a different notion of cruelty and evil than us, and what
appears incredibly cruel and evil to us, may not so appear to god. (01)
the other is not easy without a trick; there is a solution (though
rather arguable) which requires the sort of imagination that allows you
to imagine that there can be things that you just can't imagine.
for the god to be omniscient, the world does not have to be
deterministic. if the world is not deterministic (not completely
deterministic, at least), then free will is possible. but that we can,
say, choose actions freely, this does not mean that god cannot know our
choices 'in advance' -- sure he/she/it can, by definition. (i use the
quotes because god, as an omnipotent creature, surely has the powers to
move back an forth in time, and thus 'in advance' does not seem to be a
particularly sensible phrase in this context.) now, you surely can't
imagine (not that i want to offend you, it follows from what you have
already said) that there is a nondeterministic choice which has not been
made yet, yet god already has the knowledge about the outcome; this is
where from that you can't imagine how a proposition might be true you
infer its incoherence. (02)
vQ (03)
Ingvar Johansson wrote:
> Ingvar Johansson schrieb:
>> paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx schrieb:
>>
>>> I cant resist a good provocation....!
>>> I would be interested in how you came to such categorical conclusion
>>>
>>> Obviously there isn't a God (my own
>>> view is the very idea of God embedded in
>>> Christianity/Judaism/Islam is incoherent), so the
>>> fact that so many people believe there is, is
>>> something that needs to be explained.
>>>
>>>
>> Nor can I. Here are two well known and since long discussed incoherencies:
>> (a) God is omniscient, omnipotent, and, so to speak, omnigood.
>> Nonetheless, incredibly cruel and evil things take place on Earth every day.
>> (b) God is omniscient, but he has given human beings a free will so he
>> cannot predict how we will act.
>>
>
> No one has so far commented on my mail, but since I will soon leave my
> computer I will now comment on it myself.
>
> Intellectually, there is an easy solution to both the incoherencies
> above. One has merely to say that *before* God created man he was
> omniscient and omnipotent, but that *after* this creation he is, becasue
> of the free will of human beings, no longer so. However, I guess it is
> emotionally disturbing for believers in God to believe that in fact he
> is not truly almighty, and that this is the reason why theologians have
> not chosen this solution.
>
> best,
> Ingvar J
>
>
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--
Wacek Kusnierczyk (05)
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Department of Information and Computer Science (IDI)
Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU)
Sem Saelandsv. 7-9
7027 Trondheim
Norway (06)
tel. 0047 73591875
fax 0047 73594466
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