Ok, I'll eat some rhetorical crow (the following is yanked from Bill's
msg): (01)
>>LEO: There may be those who have
>>promoted wider visions of those models, but I expect 99% of database
>>folks (theorists and practitioners) will say: only obliquely are we
>>concerned with the "real world".
>
> MW: I've been developing data models for 20+ years now and even in
the
> early days the numbers were much better than that where I come from.
> Nowadays it is hard to find someone developing data models (let me be (02)
> explicit here, logical or conceptual data models and not so much
database
> schemas) who does not see themselves as being about concerned about
> the "real world". Apparently we don't inhabit the same "real world". (03)
I am in full agreement with Matt on this point. I spent only 10 years
on data modeling but what he says was also my experience. In each
project I was involved in, the parties involved were trying to build
models of real world (no scare quotes) entities. They were just trying (04)
to do it with OO/ER. (05)
LEO: Yes, I tried to make a rhetorically strong point by using 99% ;) I
would say that data modelers start out trying to capture their local
semantics in a conceptual model (I used this as synonymous with
"conceptual schema" because that's my usage and most database folks).
This is not necessarily about the real world, just their corner of it,
with entities such as purchasingDept, payroll, VSAM storage, employee
and employee identifier, specific Bureau of Labor reports, etc. Yes,
these items are all in the real world, but do they involve ontological
entities in the way we usually understand them? I think not. They do
try to capture the local semantics needed for the local data
store/application. But they are not ontologies, logical theories, etc.
I would like to see database folks use ontologies; many of them are
embracing the Semantic Web RDF/OWL, datalog, etc., because those are
more expressive, more focused on semantics, and have some logical
underpinnings. (06)
Leo (07)
-----Original Message-----
From: uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:uos-convene-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill
Andersen
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:33 AM
To: Upper Ontology Summit convention
Subject: Re: [uos-convene] Other Approaches Too. (08)
[rest deleted]
-- (09)
Bill Andersen
Chief Scientist
Ontology Works, Inc. (http://www.ontologyworks.com)
3600 O'Donnell Street, Suite 600
Baltimore, MD 21224
Office: 410-675-1201
Cell: 443-858-6444
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