Dear All, (01)
As far as I can see there are two views: (02)
1) A trope-based view. With this view, length (a member of Ed's kind of
quantity - Q1) is class of trope. Waterline length is a subclasses of the
length trope. (03)
2) A function-based based view. With this view, length (a member of Ed's
kind of quantity - Q4) is a set of equivalence classes of point pairs.
Waterline length is a function from ship to length. (04)
I think that a number of people agree that the function-based view is
useful, even whilst arguing about the philosophy. (05)
The use of the term "indirect property" for these functions has not been
helpful. The term "quantity valued function" may be better. (06)
Best regards,
David (07)
At 10:07 05/10/2009 +0200, you wrote:
>> Dear Matthew, Pat, and Ingvar,
>>
>> In these discussions, I completely agree with Pat and Ingvar.
>
>John, Many thanks for the mail below!
>Ingvar
>
>>
>> MW>>>> Why is maximum allowable temperature not a temperature?
>>
>> IJ>>> It is a temperature.
>>
>> MW>> Then tell me which temperatures are the maximum
>> >> allowable ones?
>>
>> PH> How should I know? You will have to look at the relevant
>> > spec.
>>
>> I believe that Matthew has caught a "philosopher's disease"
>> as Wittgenstein would say. Matthew is trying to force
>> extensional definitions on concepts that cannot be defined
>> by pointing to a concrete set.
>>
>> MW>> Then I ask you how I know when I look at a temperature whether
>> >> it is maximum allowable one or not.
>>
>> PH> The question is meaningless.
>>
>> Making meaningless statements that only a philosopher could imagine
>> is another symptom of a philosopher's disease. Wittgenstein would
>> prescribe a course of therapy that would guide the patient toward
>> more sensible speech.
>>
>> MW>> There is a possible world in which there is something that
>> >> has that temperature.
>>
>> PH> Ah, OK, if you allow possible words then no problem. (Interesting
>> > move, for a nominalist, but lets have that discussion in another
>> > thread)
>>
>> This point is key to a cure. The original motivation for a purely
>> extensional philosophy is to give clear, precise definitions by
>> pointing to specific sets. But many important concepts cannot be
>> defined extensionally. Those include hypothetical notions or plans
>> for the future.
>>
>> To preserve a semblance of consistency, Matthew was forced to adopt
>> not just a four-dimensional ontology that treats extensions in an
>> unobservable future as if they were just as concrete as anything
>> observable in the present, but also sets in an infinity of purely
>> imaginary possible worlds.
>>
>> But possible worlds are only definable by intensions. There is no
>> way to define them extensionally because they don't exist (or at
>> least there is no way to observe them, point to them, travel to
>> them, or get any news or reports from them). Nobody can say
>> anything about the possible worlds except by making claims about
>> unobservable fictions.
>>
>> In summary, it may be possible to formulate a coherent extensional
>> theory that accounts for observable phenomena. But there is no way
>> to generalize such a theory to support hypotheses or plans for the
>> future. Any attempt to generalize such a theory inevitably leads
>> to unsubstantiated statements about unobservable futures or claims
>> about purely imaginary possible worlds.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/uom-ontology-std/
>> Subscribe: mailto:uom-ontology-std-join@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Config/Unsubscribe:
>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/uom-ontology-std/
>> Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/
>> Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard
>>
>>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/uom-ontology-std/
>Subscribe: mailto:uom-ontology-std-join@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Config/Unsubscribe:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/uom-ontology-std/
>Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/
>Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard
>
>
> (08)
============================================================
David Leal
CAESAR Systems Limited
registered office: 29 Somertrees Avenue, Lee, London SE12 0BS
registered in England no. 2422371
tel: +44 (0)20 8857 1095
mob: +44 (0)77 0702 6926
e-mail: david.leal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
web site: http://www.caesarsystems.co.uk
============================================================ (09)
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/uom-ontology-std/
Subscribe: mailto:uom-ontology-std-join@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Config/Unsubscribe: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/uom-ontology-std/
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/
Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard (010)
|