On Oct 2, 2009, at 2:51 AM, Matthew West wrote: (01)
> Dear Pat,
>
>>> Gunther,
>>>
>>> Maximum allowable temperature is a disposition of the object.
>>> The object may reach never reach that temperature, or may reach
>> it,
>>> even
>>> exceed it, but that does not have much, in itself, to do with the
>>> property.
>>>
>>> The property is something like: other things being equal, if you
>>> stay below
>>> this temperature the object (more often, a type of object) will
>>> operate as
>>> specified - if you go above it then it may not.
>>>
>>> (Allowable is probably not the best example, as one could try and
>>> cash this
>>> out by saying that one is defining two states that the object can
>> be
>>> in -
>>> below (or equal) to the maximum and above the maximum. But that
>>> would ignore
>>> the intention that staying within the 'allowable' range should
>>> provide some
>>> guarantee of normal operation.)
>>>
>>> So, the object has (or does not have) this property whatever its
>>> actual
>>> temperature.
>>
>> OK, but this does not contradict anything anyone has said. It is a
>> property of the object, and its value is a temperature (better, it
>> is
>> a relationship between the object and a temperature.)
>
> MW: Exactly! And a relationship to a temperature is not a temperature. (02)
But the temperature that this relationship is borne to IS a
temperature. Look: (03)
(forall ((x MyHotMotor)(= (Kelvin 1200)(maximumAllowableTemperature
x) )) (04)
Now, of course the relation itself is not a temperature: (05)
(not (isTemperature maximumAllowableTemperature)) (06)
but its value, which is what we usually mean by a phrase like 'maximum
allowable temperature of...', is one: (07)
(forall (x)(isTemperature (maximumAllowableTemperature x))) (08)
Pat (09)
>
>> It is,
>> however,
>> not the property which we commonly call 'the temperature of the
>> object'. I see no problem here that needs anything special to be
>> done
>> or discussed.
>
> MW: I agree. But if we go back to the beginning the question was that
> there are some units that only have a single quantity kind, and I was
> suggesting that just as with Maximum Allowable Working Temperature,
> that
> you can make some quantity kinds up for any unit.
>
> Regards
>
> Matthew West
> Information Junction
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>
>>
>> Pat H.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I suppose one could argue that these are not quantities at all -
>> but
>>> then (I
>>> am told) most useful engineering measures would be excluded.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chris Partridge
>>> Chief Ontologist
>>>
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>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: uom-ontology-std-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:uom-
>> ontology-std-
>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gunther Schadow
>>>> Sent: 29 September 2009 21:51
>>>> To: uom-ontology-std
>>>> Subject: Re: [uom-ontology-std] What is mass?
>>>>
>>>> Matthew West wrote:
>>>>> Dear Ingvar,
>>>>>
>>>>> This sounds like an interesting challenge.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am as aware of the contents of VIM as of the SI brochure,
>> and
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> "n.b." makes exactly my point. What you might call "newton-
>> meter as
>>>>>> a unit
>>>>>> alone", I prefer to call "nominal newton-meter". However, note
>> that
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> some units can be called nominal units and tied to more than
>> one
>>>>>> kind-of-quantity; many units are unambiguously tied only to
>> one
>>>>>> kind-of-quantity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you give me a unit (or two) that you think only applies
>> to one
>>>>> kind-of-quantity, and I'll see if I can identify another?
>>>>>
>>>>> Engineering is full of things like Maximum Allowable Working
>>>>> Temperature, which is certainly not a temperature (try
>> measuring
>>>>> it with
>>>>> a thermometer).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why is maximum allowable temperature not a temperature? Just
>> because
>>>> it isn't realized? It is a temperature specification. It is a
>>>> quantity
>>>> even if it doesn't exist anywhere at any particular moment in
>> time.
>>>>
>>>> But of course that is another issue and I still agree that a
>> maximum
>>>> allowable temperature of this machine can not be well compared
>> with
>>>> the water temperature of my pool -- but then they can if the
>> machine
>>>> is meant to go into my pool (which I don't have)
>>>>
>>>> -Gunther
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D.
>>>> gschadow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Associate Professor Indiana University School of
>>>> Informatics
>>>> Regenstrief Institute, Inc. Indiana University School of
>>>> Medicine
>>>> tel:1(317)423-5521 http://
>>>> aurora.regenstrief.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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