Gunther, (01)
Your examples seem to agree with my point that indirect properties are
different from direct ones.
And I see you cash out the indirect property as a state (the option I noted
in my original email). (02)
In your example, as far as I can ascertain, you describe observing a direct
temperature, but you stipulate an indirect temperature - e.g. the "Maximum
operating temperature of Machine X" rather than observing or measuring it.
My guess is that there is more than mere stipulation involved here.
One of things your example does not capture is what operating properly
entails. Typically there are quite a few ceteris paribus conditions, which
are not mentioned here (or are implied by the use of the phrase "act of
operating properly"). (03)
I'll leave it to the engineers to provide examples of scale properties of
temperature. (04)
Regards,
Chris Partridge
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: uom-ontology-std-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:uom-ontology-std-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gunther Schadow
> Sent: 30 September 2009 22:54
> To: uom-ontology-std
> Subject: Re: [uom-ontology-std] What is mass?
>
> Chris Partridge wrote:
> > They seem to be like Cambridge properties, in as much as it is not clear
how
> > mere examination of the object will reveal (the value of) the property.
So
> > some kind of explanation of the relation is needed to understand it.
> >
> > At the practical engineering level, the normal interpretations of scale
> > operations such as addition (e.g. in the case of mass, putting both
objects
> > with the mass on the same scale) and so on do not seem to work in the
same
> > way.
>
> This only works for extensive properties. It fails with temperature
> already. So that aspect does not seem to make a difference between
> maximum allowable temperature and actual temperature.
>
> To me "maximum allowable temperature" is the upper bound of the
> "operating temperature" interval, which in turn is a criterion over
> the actual temperature property. The way we handle such things in
> HL7 is like this:
>
> "Maximum temperature = 40 degree Celsius" is
>
> Observation (criterion)
> of quantity /core temperature/
> at time /any time/
> has value [15;40] degree Celsius
>
> "Actual temperature 25 degree Celsius" is
>
> Observation (actual)
> of quantity /core temperature/
> at time 2009-09-30T15:05
> has value [24.5;25.5] degree Celsius
>
> "Actual temperature 43 degree Celsius" is
>
> Observation (actual)
> of quantity /core temperatue/
> at time 2009-09-30T15:15
> has value [42.5;43.5] degree Celsius
>
> Comparison between a criterion and an actual quantity is done by
> comparing whether the actual quantity is included in the criterion.
> That way one can also define other criteria, such as
>
> "Alarm temperature at > 35 degree Celsius"
>
> Observation (criterion)
> of quantity /core temperature/
> at time /any time/
> has value [35;-) degree Celsius
>
> The difference between the 2 criteria is how they are related to
> other information. For example, operating temperature would be
> related to the operation act that the machine performs whereas
> alarm temperature would be related to the alarm action:
>
> Act "to operate properly"
> isPerformedBy Machine
> hasThroughCondition Observation (criterion) for "operating temperature
> range"
>
> Act "to raise alarm"
> isPerformedBy TemperatureMonitor
> hasSubject Machine
> hasTriggerCondition Observation (criterion) for "alarm temperature"
>
> so a lot of these notions of "indirect properties" is in my view
> best modeled by additional structures. But nevertheless one can
> always define a property as a primitive to stand for such a complex
> model. E.g.,
>
> "Maximum operating temperature of Machine X" :=
> the high boundary of
> the range value of
> the Observation (criterion)
> of quantity /core temperature/
> which is the throughCondition of
> the act of operating properly
> performed by
> the Machine X.
>
> If we avoid such "indirect properties" with such models, there are
> then fewer true "direct properties" left, such as /core temperature/.
> However, you still have multiple temperatures, such as
>
> - core temperature
> - surface temperature
> - measured by holding a thermometer close to the shell
> - measured by an attached thermometer (using heat transfer creme)
>
> and lo and behold, we can't really compare the core temperature and
> the surface temperature to find out if the machine is still operating.
> But we can compare the surface temperatures with core temperatures
> to find out that the surface temperatures are always closer to the
> ambient temperature than the core temperature.
>
> regards,
> -Gunther
>
> --
> Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Associate Professor Indiana University School of Informatics
> Regenstrief Institute, Inc. Indiana University School of Medicine
> tel:1(317)423-5521 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
>
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