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Re: [ontolog-forum] Sabotaging a communication system is not a new idea

To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: John Bottoms <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:30:03 -0500
Message-id: <5474D8BB.9010207@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
I have looked in to modeling a bit. The latest research indicates that a 
human has about 80B neurons of about 100 types. (I have been discussing 
this with Dr. Herculano-Houzel.)
> http://www.livescience.com/18749-human-brain-cell-number.html
There are some indications that there are neuronal couplets that account 
for as many as 40% of the 80B neurons. I made an estimate of the model 
for a neuronal couplet and it takes about 30 op-amps to model the most 
basic pathways within the couplet.That says nothing about the number or 
strengths of the interface circuits or the timings of the control 
system. So, this is non-trivial work and is not likely to yield a true 
model for some time. I don't know if the Elegans models include 
information on the types of neurons.    (01)

The work with both trees and humans indicate that there are interfaces 
with viruses that are useful also. Recently a virus bacteriophage was 
detected (noticed is more likely) that is ancient and lives in the human 
gut. This bacteriophage might have the task of maintaining the bacterial 
levels in the gut across a number of different food nutrients. Others 
point to the virus as a contributor to obesity.
> http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140724/ncomms5498/full/ncomms5498.html    (02)

We are complex organizations and tightly tied to our environment. We 
need to keep George Box's comment in mind: "All models are bad, some 
models are useful."
Which is true of these is true for the Elegans work?    (03)

-John Bottoms
  Concord, MA USA    (04)

On 11/25/2014 1:59 PM, Rich Cooper wrote:
> I remember a recent article saying that trees
> under stress (fire, disease, termites, ...) send
> specific proteins out to the rest of the forest,
> and the sensing plants in the area that detect the
> signals start preparing to survive the threat in
> question.
>
> So there are deep chemical pathways, in paramecia,
> in plants, and certainly within mammal brains, by
> which the cells intercommunicate.  Figuring that
> out will take an enormous amount of time and work.
>
>
> -Rich
>
> Sincerely,
> Rich Cooper
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of John F Sowa
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:40 AM
> To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Sabotaging a
> communication system is not a new idea
>
> On 11/25/2014 1:10 PM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
>> If I remember right, the problem is that the
> connectome does
>> not include synaptic strength and other
> important details and
>> that you have to simulate body and environment
> in great detail
>> too to get the right inputs and test the
> simulation. The chemistry
>> and physics matters - especially with only 302
> neurons.
>
> All those points are important.
>
> Furthermore, a single-celled paramecium, which has
> no neurons
> of any kind, exhibits complex behavior:  finding
> food, mating,
> recognizing obstacles, and "remembering" them long
> enough to
> navigate around them.
>
> Experiments show that a paramecium is also capable
> of learning
> -- in the sense that it responds faster to stimuli
> that it had
> previously encountered and responded to
> successfully.
>
> Since the structures of any cell of any animal
> (including neurons)
> are as complex as those in a paramecium, it seems
> likely that each
> neuron has similar capabilities.  That implies
> that the so-called
> "neural networks" that treat each neuron as a
> simple switch are
> grossly oversimplified.
>
> John
>   
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