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Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontolgizing rain & snow [was: Track 1&2 Joint Missio

To: <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>, "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "AzamatAbdoullaev" <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:29:16 +0200
Message-id: <2F2DE5B3BBC94C95BD1BE03245690CEF@personalpc>
Doug,    (01)

They are all good points, but with some reservations. The rain dust, or 
blood rain i experience here on Earth :). And it's rather a vast natural 
phenomenon in the Med area.    (02)

Another principal point. How CYC represents any concrete process, be it the 
precipitation/downfall/rain. If it's capable to demonstrate all the key 
properties and attributes, like as:
PrecipitationProcess <causes and effects; types and forms; substance and 
composition; quantity and quality, duration and intensity, speed and 
visibility; harvesting and management; naming and URL>.    (03)

Thanks    (04)

Azamat    (05)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontolgizing rain & snow [was: Track 1&2 Joint 
Mission and Session Abstracts]    (06)


>> Being under heavy rain bombardment for several days, a rare process in
>> our parts, the atmospheric condition demands more attention.
>>
>> Doug,
>>
>> What about methane rain, neon rain, sulfuric acid rain, iron rain,
>> volcanic ash rain, or rain dust, full of chemicals, minerals and silt,
>> we have here,
>> in the Med Area, each early springtime from North Africa.
>
> Cyc has not modeled extra-terrestrial rain, but it would be done 
> similarly.
> Their terms for rain refer to water rain.
>
> They do have AcidRainProcess as a specialization of RainProcess, and
> have modeled Chemistry at the level of an introductory college class
> (actually: modelling the content of an AP chemistry text -- for those
> familiar with the US high school system).
>
> The ontology has classes and relations for representing material disolved
> or suspended in rainwater.
>
>> And how to formally represent the precipitation/downfall/rain properties:
>> types and forms, material and composition, duration and intensity, speed
>> and noise, quantity and quality, products and results, or causes and
>> effects ...
>
> These are all basic concepts that have been well thought out and
> ontologized at the generic level in Cyc.  I only have a copy of OpenCyc
> on my computer, so don't have access to any rules Cycorp may have
> generated inter-relating such things .
>
> Durations are specified as (#$MinutesDuration N) [or another resolution];
> downfall intensity can represented as (#$PerFn (#$Centi #$Meter)
> #$HoursDuration); and wind speed in some #$UnitOfSpeed.
>
> For causality, #$causes-SitSit would relate the event of the storm (a
> #$PhysicalEvent which is a type of #$Situation) with a #$Situation which
> it has caused.  To  state that the storm caused some proposition to be
> true, one would use (#$causes-ThingProp BlizzardOf2012 <proposition>).
>
>> It looks any seasonal falling to the planet of any form of material 
>> refers
>> to precipitation, as downfall of any from of substance, rock, glass,
>> water, etc.
>
> Cyc's #$PrecipitationProcess allows for such specializations of 
> precipitation
> to be defined and reasoned about.  Even without creating new terms,
> you could refer to #$PrecipitationParticles which are #$composedOf
> (#$SolutionFn (#$LiquidFn #$Water) #$HydrogenChloride), or one in
> which they are #$Suspensions with the #$suspendingFluid being one
> substance and with #$suspendedParts being some other substance, such
> as a (#$MobFn #$SandParticle)s.
>
> It appears that they don't have a term for #$VolcanicAsh
>
>> Azamat
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:11 PM
>> Subject: [ontolog-forum] Ontolgizing rain & snow [was: Track 1&2 Joint
>> Mission and Session Abstracts]
>>
>>
>> [ Also sent to ontology-summit discussion group. ]
>>
>> Matthew West wrote:
>>
>>> I understand your view. How shall you handle rain and snow?
>>
>> Rain & snow refer to physical precipitation particles, the precipitation
>> in
>> bulk, the process that produces the precipitation, storms as events, and
>> storms as objects.
>>
>> Cyc's representation of these different, but related things (leaving out
>> comments and some additional statements) includes:
>>
>> (isa PrecipitationParticle ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls PrecipitationParticle Particle)
>> (genls PrecipitationParticle InanimateObject-Natural)
>>
>> (isa RainProcess ProcessType)
>> (genls RainProcess PrecipitationProcess)
>>
>> (isa SnowProcess ProcessType)
>> (genls SnowProcess PrecipitationProcess)
>>
>> (isa Rainwater ExistingStuffType)
>> (genls Rainwater (LiquidFn Water-Fresh))
>>
>> (isa SnowMob ExistingStuffType)
>> (genls SnowMob (SolidFn Water))
>>
>> (isa Snowflake ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls Snowflake PrecipitationParticle)
>> (genls (MobFn Snowflake) SnowMob)
>>
>> (isa Raindrop ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls Raindrop PrecipitationParticle)
>> (genls Raindrop Rainwater)
>>
>> (relationAllExists outputsGenerated PrecipitationProcess
>>                          (MobFn PrecipitationParticle))
>> (relationAllExists outputsGenerated RainProcess (MobFn Raindrop))
>> (relationAllExists outputsGenerated SnowProcess (MobFn Snowflake))
>>
>> (isa StormAsObject ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls StormAsObject InanimateObject-Natural)
>> (relationAllExists physicalParts StormAsObject CloudInSky)
>>
>> (isa RainStormAsObject ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls RainStormAsObject StormAsObject)
>> (relationAllExists physicalParts StormAsObject CloudInSky)
>> (relationAllExists physicalParts StormAsObject (MobFn Raindrop))
>>
>> (isa SnowStormAsObject ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls SnowStormAsObject StormAsObject)
>> (relationAllExists physicalParts StormAsObject CloudInSky)
>> (relationAllExists physicalParts SnowStormAsObject (MobFn Snowflake))
>>
>> (not (relationExistsAll doneBy PrecipitationProcess StormAsObject))
>> (comment
>>   (not (relationExistsAll doneBy PrecipitationProcess StormAsObject))
>>   "A StormAsObject would include Duststorms, which don't (necessarily)
>> include precipitation.")
>>
>> (relationExistsAll doneBy RainProcess RainStormAsObject)
>> (relationExistsAll doneBy SnowProcess SnowStormAsObject)
>>
>> (isa StormAsEvent ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls StormAsEvent ImmediateWeatherProcess)
>>
>> (isa RainStormAsEvent ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls RainStormAsEvent StormAsEvent)
>> (relationAllExists subprocesses RainStormAsEvent RainProcess)
>> (relationAllExists doneBy RainStormAsEvent RainStormAsObject)
>>
>> (isa SnowStormAsEvent ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls SnowStormAsEvent StormAsEvent)
>> (relationAllExists subprocesses SnowStormAsEvent SnowProcess)
>> (relationAllExists doneBy SnowStormAsEvent SnowStormAsObject)
>>
>> (isa SnowStormAsObject ExistingObjectType)
>> (genls SnowStormAsObject StormAsObject)
>> (relationAllExists physicalParts SnowStormAsObject (MobFn Snowflake))
>>
>>
>>> Jack
>>> On Jan 26, 2012, at 6:09 AM, Matthew West wrote:
>>>
>>>> The main problem here is one of different people using terms
>>>> differently. Hardly an ontological problem per se, but certainly a
>>>> problem that causes confusion in developing ontologies.
>>
>> This is always a problem for ontologists.  The different meanings have
>> to be teased apart.
>>
>>>> Interestingly as a 4 dimensionalist I don't recognise endurants at all,
>>>> but I do recognise activities, physical objects, and participants.
>>>> Under
>>>> this world view all individuals (including activities, physical objects
>>>> and participants) are spatiotemporal extents, and you discover that an
>>>> activity consists of its participants, where a participant is the state
>>>> of a physical object that participates in some activity. So I recognise
>>>> the things you talk about. However, I would assign the term "system" to
>>>> the physical object the participant is a state of.
>>
>> I would not restrict the term "system" merely to physical objects.  But
>> having multiple clearly defined concepts which different people use that
>> word
>> for in different contexts, is fine.  They just need different URIs.
>>
>> -- doug
>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Matthew West
>>>> Information  Junction
>>>> Tel: +44 1489 880185
>>>> Mobile: +44 750 3385279
>>>> Skype: dr.matthew.west
>>>> matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> http://www.informationjunction.co.uk/
>>>> http://www.matthew-west.org.uk/
>>>>
>>>> This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in
>>>> England and Wales No. 6632177.
>>>> Registered office: 2 Brookside, Meadow Way, Letchworth Garden City,
>>>> Hertfordshire, SG6 3JE.
>>>> ...
>>
>>
>>
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