Peter, (01)
Thanks reminding me of SOA-RAF. I havent looked at it for a while but I
remember noticing some encouraging parts about speech acts. (02)
Yes it seems a is bit closer to a comprehensive profession approach. But IMHO a
document that mgmt/operational/legal people/experts can read, understand and
practice is still high on my wish list. (03)
It is a long and murky dependency/causal chain from applying E(IT)A and SOA
architecture principles to increasing a markets capacity by x3. (04)
Regards
/anders (05)
On Dec 23, 2010, at 9:52 PM, Research wrote: (06)
> Anders:
> I agree with a lot of what you say but don't want to get into a "ours is
>better than yours" discourse.
> In full disclosure, I am currently an editor of a major document coming
>through the OASIS process entitled the SOA Reference Archiecture Foundation
>(SOA-RAF).
> The goals and target group of The Open Group's SOA ontology work may be
>different to ours (I'm not familiar with the details of their stakeholders)
>but in our technical committee we did set out with an explicit objective to
>explain service and 'service-orientation' in ways that non-IT professionals
>could understand and relate to.
> Although our target audience probably won't include (many) hard-core semantic
>web and OWL implementers (one of the reasons that we don't model beyond using
>the diagram types provided by UML2), we certainly want to be sure that our
>modelling stands up to scrutiny.
> I'm not suggesting we've got it right, not yet at least, but we have
>deliberately stopped short of 'over formalising' and tried to a focus on a
>'narrative' that explains SOA in a way that allows all stakeholders -
>potential clients and consumers, business decision-makers, project leaders,
>designers, as well as IT architects and developers. For that reason, we
>include quite a large section on governance of SOA-based systems and
>explanation of the idea of the SOA 'ecosystem' and who is involved - these
>contributions may be closer to some of the things you are looking for.
>
> All the best and holiday wishes too!
>
> Regards,
> Peter
>
>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> | bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anders Tell
> | Sent: Thursday, 23 December 2010 19:49
> | To: [ontolog-forum]
> | Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA
> | Ontology Technical Standard
> |
> | I haven't studied the document carefully, so I may be off here and there.
> |
> | It seems to me as if this document is Yet Another IT- SOA vocabulary, made
>by
> | and for IT professionals including IT oriented Architects.
> |
> | While such vocabularies of Interface oriented paradigms is useful for
>engineers
> | and IT professional it miss key concepts of other professions. One can
>seriously
> | question the approach fit-for-purpuse as Business-IT aligner.
> |
> | Im currently involved in a major industry project where SOA is supposed to
>be a
> | core enabler. Unfortunately its hasn't been the great unifier, but quit the
> | opposite. As a practitioner it consumes a lot a of energy, but as
>researcher Im
> | preparing two case study since the project offers a great deal to study. Im
> | personally interested in large scale Governance.
> |
> | Reading the document one can really ask, who, except for an IT
>professionals,
> | can read, understand and practice it? (Top) management? lawyers? Business
> | process owners?
> |
> | Is the definition
> | “A service is a logical representation of a repeatable activity that
>has a
> | specified outcome. It is self-contained and is a „black box‟ to its
>consumers.”
> | the way other professions (above professions, + legislators) think about
> | Services?
> | An a black-box? In how many cases does a Consumer know absolutely nothing
> | about the Providers activities or outcome?
> |
> | One of the problems with IT-SOA is that when the style is practiced there
>may be
> | a tendency to treat everything (every information exchange) as Services.
>Then
> | Service == InformationExchange. But isn't a Service, from a common sense
> | point of view, related to someone that is providing a benefit to some? In
>this
> | case not all exchanges are Services.
> |
> | And what happened to Service Remunerations? For many profession this is a
>first
> | class concerns, relating to the essence of a Service.
> |
> | Another problem I've seen/is seeing is that IT Service professionals
>sometime
> | sees themselves as Service designers while reducing Operational experts to
> | providing requirements for service design activities. Hm, who is usually
>better at
> | sourcing, IT- or Operational professionals? More than one profession discuss
> | Services, obviously in different senses.
> |
> | A positive note: its good to see Events in a Service ontology. Occurrences
>are
> | quite useful when discussing, describing Services, across professions. An
>proper
> | process ontology such as PSL could also be a nice addition.
> |
> | Although I seriously wonder about the soundness of reasoning in section
>"4.3.1
> | Service Consumers and Service Providers ".
> |
> | If a SOA ontology is considered as a candidate for a ontological killer
>application
> | then IMO then business and legal concerns must be explicitly added otherwise
> | the name should include a prefix IT-SOA or System-SOA or ...
> |
> | holiday wishes
> | /anders w tell
> |
> | On Dec 20, 2010, at 9:20 PM, Research wrote:
> |
> | > That's a pretty sweeping statement, Todd Care to share why it is
> | > "rubbish"? And if there are valuable lessons to be learned, I'd be
> | > pleased to learn them
> | >
> | > Peter
> | >
> | > Peter F Brown
> | > Independent Consultant
> | >
> | > Transforming our Relationships with Information Technologies
> | > www.peterfbrown.com @pensivepeter P.O. Box 49719, Los Angeles, CA
> | > 90049, USA
> | > Tel: +1.310.694.2278
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > | -----Original Message-----
> | > | From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> | > | bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Todd J Schneider
> | > | Sent: Wednesday, 15 December 2010 00:53
> | > | To: [ontolog-forum]
> | > | Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA:
> | > | The SOA Ontology Technical Standard
> | > |
> | > | To all concerned or interested the SOA ontology put forth by the
> | > | Open Group is rubbish for many reasons. I provided several pages of
> | > | comments and justifications to an earlier draft and almost all of my
> | > | comments were not accepted.
> | > |
> | > | However, there is some value in this work. It can be used as an
> | > | example of errors that are commonly made.
> | > |
> | > | Finally, I'd like to commend Chris Harding in his efforts to
> | > | reconcile very divergent views and opinions.
> | > |
> | > | Todd
> | > |
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | From:
> | > | Ed Dodds <dodds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> | > | To:
> | > | ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > | Date:
> | > | 12/14/2010 06:46 PM
> | > | Subject:
> | > | [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA
> | Ontology
> | > | Technical Standard
> | > | Sent by:
> | > | ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > |
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | FYI
> | > |
> | > | Ed Dodds
> | > | Collaboration Strategist
> | > | Conmergence.com
> | > | dodds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > | (615) 657-9359
> | > | ed_dodds_skype
> | > | ed.dodds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> | > | From: clifford thompson <cliff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> | > | Date: Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 8:03 AM
> | > | Subject: Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA Ontology
> | > | Technical Standard
> | > | To: Jim buckner <" James.Buckner"@state.ma.us>,
> | > | kevin.x.geminiuc@xxxxxx, Services Oriented Architecture
> | > | <soa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Steve Connolly < stconnoll@xxxxxxx>,
> | > | "phil.barr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" < phil.barr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> | > | Jobst Landgrebe < jobstlandgrebe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | Hi,
> | > |
> | > | FYI
> | > |
> | > | Cliff
> | > | Best Regards,
> | > |
> | > | Clifford Thompson
> | > | CTO
> | > | OntoSolutions LLC
> | > | 704.257.4422
> | > | cliff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > | http://ontosolutions.com
> | > | http://semanticarch.com/wordpress
> | > |
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | -------- Original Message --------
> | > | Subject:
> | > | [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA Ontology Technical Standard
> | > | Date:
> | > | Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:42:42 +0000
> | > | From:
> | > | Open Group Blog <no-reply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> | > | To:
> | > | cliff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> | > |
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | The Newest from SOA: The SOA Ontology Technical Standard The Open
> | > | Group Blog | December 8, 2010 at 5:42 am | Tags: architect,
> | > | communication, enterprise, IT, Open Group, organizations, OWL, SOA,
> | > | SOA Ontology, SOA standards, SOA Work Group | Categories: Cloud/SOA |
> | URL:
> | > | http://wp.me/p1cB5i-1L
> | > | By Heather Kreger
> | > | Open Group just announced the availability of the SOA Ontology
> | > | Technical Standard.
> | > | Ontology?? Sounds very ‘semantic Web,’ doesn’t it? Just smacks of
> | > | reasoning engines. What on earth do architects using SOA want with
> | > | reasoning engines?
> | > | Actually, Ontologies are misunderstood — an Ontology is simply the
> | > | definition of a set of concepts and the relationships between them
> | > | for a particular domain — in this case, the domain is SOA.
> | > | They don’t HAVE to be used for reasoning… or semantic Web. And they
> | > | are more than a simple glossary which defines terms, because they
> | > | also define relationships between them — something important for
> | > | SOA, we thought. It’s also important to note that they are more
> | > | formal than Reference Models, usually by providing representations
> | > | in OWL (just in case you want to use popular tools for Ontology and
> | reasoners).
> | > | What would an architect do with THIS ontology?
> | > |
> | > | It can be used simply to read and understand the key concepts of
> | > | SOA, and more importantly, a set of definitions and UNDERSTANDING of
> | > | key concepts that you can agree to use with others in your company
> | > | and between organizations. Making sure you are ‘speaking the same
> | > | language’ is essential for any architect to be able to communicate
> | > | effectively with IT, business, and marketing professionals within
> | > | the enterprise as well as with vendors and suppliers outside the
> | > | enterprise. This common language can help ensure that you can ask
> | > | the right questions and interpret the answers you get unambiguously.
> | > | It can be used as a basis for the models for the SOA solution as
> | > | well. In fact, this is happening in the SOA repository standard
> | > | under development in OASIS, S-RAMP, where they have used the SOA
> | > | Ontology as the foundational business model for registry/repository
> | integration.
> | > | The Ontology can also be augmented with additional related
> | > | domain-specific ontologies; for example, on Governance or Business
> | > | Process Management… or even in a vertical industry like retail where
> | > | ARTS is developing service models. In fact, we, the SOA Ontology
> | > | project, tried to define the minimum, absolutely core concepts
> | > | needed for SOA and allow other domain experts to define additional
> | > | details for Policy, Process, Service Contract, etc.
> | > | This Ontology was developed to be consistent with existing and
> | > | developing SOA standards including OMG’s SOA/ML and BPMN and those
> | > | in the Open Group SOA Workgroup: SOA Governance Framework, OSIMM,
> | > | and the SOA Reference Architecture. It seems it would have been good
> | > | to have developed this standard before now, but the good news is
> | > | that it is grounded in extensive real-world experience developing,
> | > | deploying and communicating about SOA solutions over the past five
> | > | years. The Ontology reflects the lessons learned about what terms
> | > | NOT to use to avoid confusion, and how to best distinguish among
> | > | some common and often overused concepts like service composition,
> | > | process, service contracts, and policy and their roles in SOA.
> | > | Have a look at the new SOA Ontology and see if it can help you in
> | > | your communications for SOA. It’s available to you free at this link:
> | > | http://www.opengroup.org/bookstore/catalog/c104.htm
> | > | Additional Links:
> | > | SOA Work Group: http://www.opengroup.org/soa, publishes the SOA
> | > | Ontology, SOA Governance Framework, OSIMM (Service Integration
> | > | Maturity Model), and SOA Reference Architecture SOA Ontology
> | > | project:
> | > | http://www.opengroup.org/soa/projects/ont.htm#_Ontologies_for_SOA
> | > | SOA Repository Artifact Model and Protocol (S-RAMP),
> | > | http://s-ramp.org,
> | > | http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=s-ramp
> | > | OMG, http://www.omg.org, publishes the SOA/ML and BPMN standards
> | > | work Heather Kreger is IBM’s lead architect for Smarter Planet,
> | > | Policy, and SOA Standards in the IBM Software Group, with 15 years
> | > | of standards experience. She has led the development of standards
> | > | for Cloud, SOA, Web services, Management and Java in numerous
> | > | standards organizations, including W3C, OASIS, DMTF, and Open Group.
> | > | Heather is currently co-chair for the Open Group’s SOA Work Group
> | > | and liaison for the Open Group SOA and Cloud Work Groups to ISO/IEC
> | > | JTC1 SC7 SOA SG and INCITS DAPS38 (US TAG to ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC38).
> | > | Heather is also the author of numerous articles and specifications,
> | > | as well as the book Java and JMX, Building Manageable Systems, and
> | > | most recently was co-editor of Navigating the SOA Open Standards
> | Landscape Around Architecture.
> | > | Add a comment to this post
> | > |
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