Anders:
Indeed, by cutting out some chunks that you might like (like on speech acts),
we are making it a document that can be read by your target groups of
management, operational, legal people! ;-) (01)
It's a tough call sometimes with limited resources - sacrificing textual
clarity for modelling concision and precision; or sacrificing modelling in
favour of clear prose. They shouldn't be opposed goals but all too often are,
sadly. I'm hoping with SOA-RAF that we can avoid that. (02)
Peter (03)
| -----Original Message-----
| From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
| bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anders Tell
| Sent: Monday, 27 December 2010 13:14
| To: [ontolog-forum]
| Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA
| Ontology Technical Standard
|
| Peter,
|
| Thanks reminding me of SOA-RAF. I havent looked at it for a while but I
| remember noticing some encouraging parts about speech acts.
|
| Yes it seems a is bit closer to a comprehensive profession approach. But IMHO
|a
| document that mgmt/operational/legal people/experts can read, understand
| and practice is still high on my wish list.
|
| It is a long and murky dependency/causal chain from applying E(IT)A and SOA
| architecture principles to increasing a markets capacity by x3.
|
| Regards
| /anders
|
|
|
| On Dec 23, 2010, at 9:52 PM, Research wrote:
|
| > Anders:
| > I agree with a lot of what you say but don't want to get into a "ours is
|better
| than yours" discourse.
| > In full disclosure, I am currently an editor of a major document coming
| through the OASIS process entitled the SOA Reference Archiecture Foundation
| (SOA-RAF).
| > The goals and target group of The Open Group's SOA ontology work may be
| different to ours (I'm not familiar with the details of their stakeholders)
|but in
| our technical committee we did set out with an explicit objective to explain
| service and 'service-orientation' in ways that non-IT professionals could
| understand and relate to.
| > Although our target audience probably won't include (many) hard-core
| semantic web and OWL implementers (one of the reasons that we don't model
| beyond using the diagram types provided by UML2), we certainly want to be
| sure that our modelling stands up to scrutiny.
| > I'm not suggesting we've got it right, not yet at least, but we have
|deliberately
| stopped short of 'over formalising' and tried to a focus on a 'narrative' that
| explains SOA in a way that allows all stakeholders - potential clients and
| consumers, business decision-makers, project leaders, designers, as well as IT
| architects and developers. For that reason, we include quite a large section
|on
| governance of SOA-based systems and explanation of the idea of the SOA
| 'ecosystem' and who is involved - these contributions may be closer to some of
| the things you are looking for.
| >
| > All the best and holiday wishes too!
| >
| > Regards,
| > Peter
| >
| >
| > | -----Original Message-----
| > | From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-
| > | bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anders Tell
| > | Sent: Thursday, 23 December 2010 19:49
| > | To: [ontolog-forum]
| > | Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA:
| > | The SOA Ontology Technical Standard
| > |
| > | I haven't studied the document carefully, so I may be off here and there.
| > |
| > | It seems to me as if this document is Yet Another IT- SOA
| > | vocabulary, made by and for IT professionals including IT oriented
|Architects.
| > |
| > | While such vocabularies of Interface oriented paradigms is useful
| > | for engineers and IT professional it miss key concepts of other
| > | professions. One can seriously question the approach fit-for-purpuse as
| Business-IT aligner.
| > |
| > | Im currently involved in a major industry project where SOA is
| > | supposed to be a core enabler. Unfortunately its hasn't been the
| > | great unifier, but quit the opposite. As a practitioner it consumes
| > | a lot a of energy, but as researcher Im preparing two case study
| > | since the project offers a great deal to study. Im personally interested
|in
| large scale Governance.
| > |
| > | Reading the document one can really ask, who, except for an IT
| > | professionals, can read, understand and practice it? (Top)
| > | management? lawyers? Business process owners?
| > |
| > | Is the definition
| > | “A service is a logical representation of a repeatable activity
| > | that has a specified outcome. It is self-contained and is a „black
|box‟ to its
| consumers.”
| > | the way other professions (above professions, + legislators) think
| > | about Services?
| > | An a black-box? In how many cases does a Consumer know absolutely
| > | nothing about the Providers activities or outcome?
| > |
| > | One of the problems with IT-SOA is that when the style is practiced
| > | there may be a tendency to treat everything (every information
| > | exchange) as Services. Then Service == InformationExchange. But
| > | isn't a Service, from a common sense point of view, related to
| > | someone that is providing a benefit to some? In this case not all
|exchanges
| are Services.
| > |
| > | And what happened to Service Remunerations? For many profession this
| > | is a first class concerns, relating to the essence of a Service.
| > |
| > | Another problem I've seen/is seeing is that IT Service professionals
| > | sometime sees themselves as Service designers while reducing
| > | Operational experts to providing requirements for service design
| > | activities. Hm, who is usually better at sourcing, IT- or
| > | Operational professionals? More than one profession discuss Services,
| obviously in different senses.
| > |
| > | A positive note: its good to see Events in a Service ontology.
| > | Occurrences are quite useful when discussing, describing Services,
| > | across professions. An proper process ontology such as PSL could also be a
| nice addition.
| > |
| > | Although I seriously wonder about the soundness of reasoning in
| > | section "4.3.1 Service Consumers and Service Providers ".
| > |
| > | If a SOA ontology is considered as a candidate for a ontological
| > | killer application then IMO then business and legal concerns must be
| > | explicitly added otherwise the name should include a prefix IT-SOA or
| System-SOA or ...
| > |
| > | holiday wishes
| > | /anders w tell
| > |
| > | On Dec 20, 2010, at 9:20 PM, Research wrote:
| > |
| > | > That's a pretty sweeping statement, Todd Care to share why it is
| > | > "rubbish"? And if there are valuable lessons to be learned, I'd be
| > | > pleased to learn them
| > | >
| > | > Peter
| > | >
| > | > Peter F Brown
| > | > Independent Consultant
| > | >
| > | > Transforming our Relationships with Information Technologies
| > | > www.peterfbrown.com @pensivepeter P.O. Box 49719, Los Angeles, CA
| > | > 90049, USA
| > | > Tel: +1.310.694.2278
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | -----Original Message-----
| > | > | From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > | [mailto:ontolog-forum- bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
| > | > | Todd J Schneider
| > | > | Sent: Wednesday, 15 December 2010 00:53
| > | > | To: [ontolog-forum]
| > | > | Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA:
| > | > | The SOA Ontology Technical Standard
| > | > |
| > | > | To all concerned or interested the SOA ontology put forth by the
| > | > | Open Group is rubbish for many reasons. I provided several pages
| > | > | of comments and justifications to an earlier draft and almost
| > | > | all of my comments were not accepted.
| > | > |
| > | > | However, there is some value in this work. It can be used as an
| > | > | example of errors that are commonly made.
| > | > |
| > | > | Finally, I'd like to commend Chris Harding in his efforts to
| > | > | reconcile very divergent views and opinions.
| > | > |
| > | > | Todd
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | From:
| > | > | Ed Dodds <dodds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
| > | > | To:
| > | > | ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > | Date:
| > | > | 12/14/2010 06:46 PM
| > | > | Subject:
| > | > | [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA
| > | Ontology
| > | > | Technical Standard
| > | > | Sent by:
| > | > | ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | FYI
| > | > |
| > | > | Ed Dodds
| > | > | Collaboration Strategist
| > | > | Conmergence.com
| > | > | dodds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > | (615) 657-9359
| > | > | ed_dodds_skype
| > | > | ed.dodds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | ---------- Forwarded message ----------
| > | > | From: clifford thompson <cliff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
| > | > | Date: Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 8:03 AM
| > | > | Subject: Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA Ontology
| > | > | Technical Standard
| > | > | To: Jim buckner <" James.Buckner"@state.ma.us>,
| > | > | kevin.x.geminiuc@xxxxxx, Services Oriented Architecture
| > | > | <soa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Steve Connolly < stconnoll@xxxxxxx>,
| > | > | "phil.barr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" < phil.barr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
| > | > | Jobst Landgrebe < jobstlandgrebe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | Hi,
| > | > |
| > | > | FYI
| > | > |
| > | > | Cliff
| > | > | Best Regards,
| > | > |
| > | > | Clifford Thompson
| > | > | CTO
| > | > | OntoSolutions LLC
| > | > | 704.257.4422
| > | > | cliff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > | http://ontosolutions.com
| > | > | http://semanticarch.com/wordpress
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | -------- Original Message --------
| > | > | Subject:
| > | > | [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA Ontology Technical
| > | > | Standard
| > | > | Date:
| > | > | Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:42:42 +0000
| > | > | From:
| > | > | Open Group Blog <no-reply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
| > | > | To:
| > | > | cliff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | The Newest from SOA: The SOA Ontology Technical Standard The
| > | > | Open Group Blog | December 8, 2010 at 5:42 am | Tags: architect,
| > | > | communication, enterprise, IT, Open Group, organizations, OWL,
| > | > | SOA, SOA Ontology, SOA standards, SOA Work Group | Categories:
| > | > | Cloud/SOA |
| > | URL:
| > | > | http://wp.me/p1cB5i-1L
| > | > | By Heather Kreger
| > | > | Open Group just announced the availability of the SOA Ontology
| > | > | Technical Standard.
| > | > | Ontology?? Sounds very ‘semantic Web,’ doesn’t it? Just smacks
| > | > | of reasoning engines. What on earth do architects using SOA want
| > | > | with reasoning engines?
| > | > | Actually, Ontologies are misunderstood — an Ontology is simply
| > | > | the definition of a set of concepts and the relationships
| > | > | between them for a particular domain — in this case, the domain is
|SOA.
| > | > | They don’t HAVE to be used for reasoning… or semantic Web. And
| > | > | they are more than a simple glossary which defines terms,
| > | > | because they also define relationships between them — something
| > | > | important for SOA, we thought. It’s also important to note that
| > | > | they are more formal than Reference Models, usually by providing
| > | > | representations in OWL (just in case you want to use popular
| > | > | tools for Ontology and
| > | reasoners).
| > | > | What would an architect do with THIS ontology?
| > | > |
| > | > | It can be used simply to read and understand the key concepts of
| > | > | SOA, and more importantly, a set of definitions and
| > | > | UNDERSTANDING of key concepts that you can agree to use with
| > | > | others in your company and between organizations. Making sure
| > | > | you are ‘speaking the same language’ is essential for any
| > | > | architect to be able to communicate effectively with IT,
| > | > | business, and marketing professionals within the enterprise as
| > | > | well as with vendors and suppliers outside the enterprise. This
| > | > | common language can help ensure that you can ask the right questions
| and interpret the answers you get unambiguously.
| > | > | It can be used as a basis for the models for the SOA solution as
| > | > | well. In fact, this is happening in the SOA repository standard
| > | > | under development in OASIS, S-RAMP, where they have used the SOA
| > | > | Ontology as the foundational business model for
| > | > | registry/repository
| > | integration.
| > | > | The Ontology can also be augmented with additional related
| > | > | domain-specific ontologies; for example, on Governance or
| > | > | Business Process Management… or even in a vertical industry like
| > | > | retail where ARTS is developing service models. In fact, we, the
| > | > | SOA Ontology project, tried to define the minimum, absolutely
| > | > | core concepts needed for SOA and allow other domain experts to
| > | > | define additional details for Policy, Process, Service Contract, etc.
| > | > | This Ontology was developed to be consistent with existing and
| > | > | developing SOA standards including OMG’s SOA/ML and BPMN and
| > | > | those in the Open Group SOA Workgroup: SOA Governance Framework,
| > | > | OSIMM, and the SOA Reference Architecture. It seems it would
| > | > | have been good to have developed this standard before now, but
| > | > | the good news is that it is grounded in extensive real-world
| > | > | experience developing, deploying and communicating about SOA
| > | > | solutions over the past five years. The Ontology reflects the
| > | > | lessons learned about what terms NOT to use to avoid confusion,
| > | > | and how to best distinguish among some common and often overused
| > | > | concepts like service composition, process, service contracts, and
|policy
| and their roles in SOA.
| > | > | Have a look at the new SOA Ontology and see if it can help you
| > | > | in your communications for SOA. It’s available to you free at this
|link:
| > | > | http://www.opengroup.org/bookstore/catalog/c104.htm
| > | > | Additional Links:
| > | > | SOA Work Group: http://www.opengroup.org/soa, publishes the SOA
| > | > | Ontology, SOA Governance Framework, OSIMM (Service Integration
| > | > | Maturity Model), and SOA Reference Architecture SOA Ontology
| > | > | project:
| > | > | http://www.opengroup.org/soa/projects/ont.htm#_Ontologies_for_SO
| > | > | A SOA Repository Artifact Model and Protocol (S-RAMP),
| > | > | http://s-ramp.org,
| > | > | http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=s-
| ram
| > | > | p OMG, http://www.omg.org, publishes the SOA/ML and BPMN
| > | > | standards work Heather Kreger is IBM’s lead architect for
| > | > | Smarter Planet, Policy, and SOA Standards in the IBM Software
| > | > | Group, with 15 years of standards experience. She has led the
| > | > | development of standards for Cloud, SOA, Web services,
| > | > | Management and Java in numerous standards organizations,
| > | > | including W3C, OASIS, DMTF, and Open Group.
| > | > | Heather is currently co-chair for the Open Group’s SOA Work
| > | > | Group and liaison for the Open Group SOA and Cloud Work Groups
| > | > | to ISO/IEC
| > | > | JTC1 SC7 SOA SG and INCITS DAPS38 (US TAG to ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC38).
| > | > | Heather is also the author of numerous articles and
| > | > | specifications, as well as the book Java and JMX, Building
| > | > | Manageable Systems, and most recently was co-editor of
| > | > | Navigating the SOA Open Standards
| > | Landscape Around Architecture.
| > | > | Add a comment to this post
| > | > |
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