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Re: [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA Ontolog

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "doug foxvog" <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 02:03:43 -0500 (EST)
Message-id: <54857.69.143.211.222.1293174223.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Tue, December 21, 2010 22:19, Barkmeyer, Edward J. said:
> ...
> Further, the statement:
>
>> Jack and John are instances of Actor.    (01)

> is at least inaccurate.
> Actor is a role with respect to an activity/process. ...    (02)

Unfortunately, this is something i have seen far too often when a group
of people build an ontology -- people not just suggesting that some
item in an ontology might be more reasonably named something else,
but stating that a person is "wrong" in their definition of an ontology
element they created.  ---  Someone is wrong in their definition of an
ontology term if the definition is inconsistent, with either itself,
some other statement(s) in the ontology, or with comments describing the
term.  Otherwise, it may be poorly named, or inappropriate for the
current context.    (03)

Ontolog-forum members normally only provide ontology snippets in these
discussions.  Portions of the meaning of terms are therefore left up to
the reader to guess.  I ask that ontolog-forum members try to understand
what a poster means when s/he presents an ontology snippet.  Furtherance
of the discussion is (IMHO) more fruitful than a discussion of the
proper names to give different items in the ontology snippet.    (04)

> That is, every Actor relationship is ternary:    (05)

Sure, the relationship is ternary.  However, the term "Actor" clearly
does not refer to a type of predicate, above.  I interpret it to mean
the class of things which can serve as actors in a ternary relationship.    (06)

Such terminology has been used in multiple ontologies in the past.  Both
meanings for the English word "actor" have been used in the literature.    (07)

-- doug f    (08)

> ...    (09)

> -Ed
>
>
>
> --
> Edward J. Barkmeyer                       Email: edbark@xxxxxxxx
> National Institute of Standards & Technology
> Manufacturing Systems Integration Division
> 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8263               Office: +1 301-975-3528
> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8263               Mobile: +1 240-672-5800
> ________________________________________
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher Menzel
> [cmenzel@xxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 5:57 PM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Cc: peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The
> SOA     Ontology Technical Standard
>
> On Dec 20, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Research wrote:
> That's a pretty sweeping statement, Todd
> Care to share why it is "rubbish"? And if there are valuable lessons to be
> learned, I'd be pleased to learn them
>
> Peter
>
> Peter F Brown
> Independent Consultant
>
> I haven't studied the document carefully, so anything I say should be
> taken with a grain of salt, but it seems like there are some pretty
> obvious instance/subclass confusions.  (I sorta thought Woods straightened
> everyone out about is-a ambiguities in 1975, but whatever! ;-)  From the
> Car Wash example 3.3.2.4:
>
> As an important part of the car wash system, John and Jack perform certain
> manual tasks required for washing a car properly:
>
>  Jack and John are instances of Actor
>  WashWindows is an instance of Task and is done by John
>  PushWashButton is an instance of Task and is done by Jack
>
> Seems to me from the brief description that WashWidows and PushWashButton
> are supposed to be classes whose instances are actual atomic tasks 
> John's actual window-washings and Jack's actual wash-button-pushings.  If
> so, then it seems to me that the little ontology fragment above is wrong
> and that, instead of the second and third lines, they should have:
>
>  WashWindows is a subclass of Task
>  Instances of WashWindows are done by John
>  PushWashButton is a subclass of Task
>  Instances of PushWashButton are done by Jack
>
> Or something like that.
>
> Chris Menzel
>
>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From:
> 
>ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-
> | bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Todd J Schneider
> | Sent: Wednesday, 15 December 2010 00:53
> | To: [ontolog-forum]
> | Subject: Re: [-forum] Fwd: [New post] The Newest from SOA: The SOA
> | Ontology Technical Standard
> |
> | To all concerned or interested the SOA ontology put forth by the Open
> Group is
> | rubbish for many reasons. I provided several pages of comments and
> | justifications to an earlier draft and almost all of my comments were
> not
> | accepted.
> |
> | However, there is some value in this work. It can be used as an example
> of
> | errors that are commonly made.
> |
> | Finally, I'd like to commend Chris Harding in his efforts to reconcile
> very
> | divergent views and opinions.
> |
> | Todd
>
>
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>    (010)


=============================================================
doug foxvog    doug@xxxxxxxxxx   http://ProgressiveAustin.org    (011)

"I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
    - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
=============================================================    (012)


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