Hi Ferenc,
I’m trying to understand why you
apply space-time to identity recognition. If Aristotle had an idea (the
syllogism), that idea is the same one we use today, and often debate the intricacies
of on this list.
Since it’s the same idea, but with a
different space-time boundary, it seems identical to itself for that reason –
time and space do not bound abstract concept objects like they sometimes do with
physical objects. But even there, the pottery shard made in Egypt 5,000
years ago is still the same pottery shard found by some Indiana Jones in 1935. So
even there, the time space bracketing isn’t necessary or even useful,
IMHO.
Time and space are good bracketing
properties for some applications, but not for all kinds of objects when
identity is being modeled, IMHO.
Re the observer’s relationship with
the object, it seems that the <sign,interpretANT,interpretER> says it
all; potentially, everyone could interpret any sign in any way they please. So
identity in that universe has to be conditioned on who is doing the
identification.
Thanks,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
From:
ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of FERENC KOVACS
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010
1:56 AM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ontolog-forum] triadic
sign relations in practice
Following
the law of identity an object is identical with itself if it exists at a
particular place in space and a particular point of time. This is like
duplicating an object. So therefore two seemingly identical objects are only
identical with each other, if we disregard space an time parameters. This is
called abstarction, disaambiguation, decontextualization, etc.
But if you
accept that an object has two facets, namely form and content, or if you accept
that no claim on identity may be made without including the aspect of the
observer, then it must be clear, that either you have a new situation when the
object is seen from a different aspect by the same observer, or you have
another observer. Both of those aspects mean that you have a relation between
the observer and the object observed, in other word the observer relates the
object to him/herself.
Since
objects have names (even concepts do) which are forms, we are faced with the
problem of defining and harmonizing the associated content (usually properties)
in each observer to achive mutual understanding.
I admit
that space and time parameters may be dropped for some purpose, but as Physics
teaches us, the aspect of the observer cannot. Otherwise you are all talking to
yourselves.