Chris M wrote: (01)
If what you say is true, you should be able to give a valid argument for it.
However, if what you say is true, it will not be possible for you to do so,
since a valid argument must depend on the validity of the basic laws of
logic. Hence, what you say is not true. (Of course, you will not accept
this argument since it depends on the argument pattern Reductio Ad Absurdum,
which according to you is not endorsed by reason and hence, presumably, is
not valid.) (02)
A proposal in a natural language may not be identical withn itself.
E.g. No one likes to be contradicted =/ No one likes to be contradicted Or:
Everyone loves finding another one in contradiction with him/herself
Subject to the emphasis you may vary when reading it out, you will have
diferent meanings exposed. Or in simple English: I want to pay you for your
contribution. Each "content" word may be emphasized, gramamr words cannot,
they will not change the meaning that way. they are like nuts and bolts, So
it is the FOCUS
that will vary meaning. You need to know where the fpcus is in a statement.
But normally, our focus is very limited and missing in writing. Old
grammarians believe that words are in the centre of semantic analysis, but
they are not. they also believe that there are such things as abstract nouns
and conrete nouns, which is not correct either.
Identity is Not objective and fixed and a law. Do you want me to elabrate on
that?
There is an abstract- concrete and generic-specific continuum which is the
reflection of one's knowledge or learnedness.Do you want me to go into the
details of that?
Shall we change the subject line?
Cheers, Ferenc (03)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Menzel" <cmenzel@xxxxxxxx>
To: "[ontolog-forum] " <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Ontologies as social mediators
(was:Ontologydevelopment method) (04)
> On Dec 1, 2009, at 10:51 AM, FERENC KOVACS wrote:
>> ...I find that the basic laws of logic, i. e. the law of identity, etc.
>> are not endorsed by reason seeing truth as the ultimate criteria of
>> anything worth stating and accepting as plausible knowledge.
>
> If what you say is true, you should be able to give a valid argument for
> it. However, if what you say is true, it will not be possible for you to
> do so, since a valid argument must depend on the validity of the basic
> laws of logic. Hence, what you say is not true. (Of course, you will not
> accept this argument since it depends on the argument pattern Reductio Ad
> Absurdum, which according to you is not endorsed by reason and hence,
> presumably, is not valid.)
>
>> On the contrary, they are endorsed by emotion and will,
>
> So I guess it follows for you (although how can it *follow* if there are
> no objectively valid logical laws by which one thing follows from
> another?) that there can be no debates. Rather, on your telling, we
> simply throw out our opinions (all of them ungrounded in argument, it
> appears) and hope that others will accept them in virtue of a sudden flood
> of emotion or a non-rational act of will. And, indeed, reading through
> your post, it does appear to be simply a series of assertions with nary an
> argument to be found so you do appear to be consistent on that score.
>
>> since truth is something people are ready to fight for and anything
>> claimed to be not true would normally upset the person claiming that
>> point, if challenged.
>
> I hope I haven't upset you. ;-)
>
> Chris Menzel
>
>
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