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Re: [ontolog-forum] {Disarmed} Reality and Truth

To: paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:46:16 -0700
Message-id: <p06230971c261ad87dfe9@[]>
>Hay Pat, and all
>I personally dont think that the existence of God is a topic for this forum,    (01)

I tend to agree. So I won't pursue this 
potentially interesting thread. I was motivated 
to defend Dawkins, who has (predictably) gotten a 
very bad press, most of the criticism in which 
completely misses his point. To suggest he should 
study theology is like telling a literary critic 
he should study font design. If Dawkins is right, 
theology is (literally) the study of nothing. Why 
would one concern oneself with such an empty 
topic?    (02)

But I promised not to get involved in this debate, so will say no more.    (03)

Pat    (04)

>  at least not in
>speculative terms
>The Manifest Reality is challenging enough, and I dont think we are ready to
>tackle the Unmanifest, yet.
>However, I cant resist a good provocation....!
>I would be interested in how you came to such categorical conclusion
>Obviously there isn't a God (my own
>view is the very idea of God embedded in
>Christianity/Judaism/Islam is incoherent), so the
>fact that so many people believe there is, is
>something that needs to be explained.
>Have you considered the possibility that maybe you are overlooking something
>As we said before on this thread, Reality exists 
>irrespective of whether we observe it
>or not
>or that possibly, your instrument of observation 
>of such phenomenon (your rational intellect, I 
>presume) is not suitable to measure what you are 
>trying to observe (we obviously dont know what 
>we are looking for here, but I'd rather keep an 
>open mind about what I dont know.
>Or maybe we just have different methods of enquiry?
>Religions are based  dogmas, and are created by 
>societies,(I agree, can be dangerous stuff) 
>while spiritual growth and living by certain 
>rules (honesty, truthfulness etc)  is generally 
>a very personal path
>you should try meditation!
>Let's take this off list, shall we, or let's set up a proper study
>makes a brave attempt to do this. Its nothing
>whatever to do with theology: its more a matter
>for evolutionary biology or social psychology.
>>(For anyone interested in the complexities of the issue I would suggest
>>"Does God Exist?" by Hans Küng as a starting point.)
>I find the arguments used there almost absurdly
>naive. What should I try next, do you think?
>Pat Hayes
>>Hope you are having a great day!
>>>Perhaps it would be interesting to argue, chaining to previous
>>>discussions, that if *all* people suffer from a delusion, it is called
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>    (05)

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phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes    (06)

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