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Re: [ontolog-forum] {Disarmed} Reality and Truth

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: paola.dimaio@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 01:43:39 +0100
Message-id: <c09b00eb0705051743i10bc4c9ey7daa41190f06a958@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
May I ask what is the relevance/interest of this book to the discussion? (must have missed the point along the way)

if there is any particular statement in the book that you wish this community to analyse and discuss, please
kindly point us to the relevant passage, and/or kindly put it in the right context for us, so that we can address the issues accordingly, if relevant

for every author wo thinks that theology is about nothing, I am sure there are at least another author who thinks  its  a very important topic,

some think dawkin is educational, and some think his work is meaningless nonsense

some people say picasso could not paint, and some say that reality is not like dali depicts is

so what?
:-)


pdm



On 5/4/07, Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>Waclaw,
>
>Waclaw Kusnierczyk wrote:
>
>>>On 5/2/07, *Cassidy, Patrick J.* <pcassidy@xxxxxxxxx
>>><mailto: pcassidy@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Debbie -
>>>      Not sure how formal your work needs to be, but Richard Dawkins in
>>>     his book "The God Delusion" has reclassified all discourses on
>>>     theology as "meaningless nonsense".  Does that fit?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Dawkins says:
>>
>>"The dictionary supplied with Microsoft Word defines a
>>delusion as Œa persistent false belief held in the face of strong
>>contradictory evidence, especially as a symptom of psychiatric disorder¹.
>>The first part captures religious faith perfectly. As to
>>whether it is a symptom of a psychiatric disorder, I am inclined to
>>follow Robert M. Pirsig, author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
>>Maintenance, when he said, ŒWhen one person suffers from a
>>delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from
>>a delusion it is called Religion.¹"
>>
>>
>>
>Sigh. It is works like the one by Dawkins that gives "science" such a
>bad name in the humanities in general and religion in particular.

Religion is part of the humanities? Thats an interesting position.

>The religion "debunked" by Dawkins in his book is a caricature of the
>theology of any modern (as well as many not so modern) theologians.
>
>It may be amusing to bash "700 Club" type religion but why not take on
>the more serious (at least in my view) advocates of a position you want
>to criticize?

Because what Dawkins is talking about is
religious belief, not theology. And what is
actually believed by the overwhelming majority -
all but an infinitesimally small fraction - of
adults who profess religious beliefs seems to be
more like the 700 club than, for example, Hans
Kung. And that is what needs to be explained.
Theology is not the *advocation* of a religious
position. The advocates are the priests and
ayatollahs, not the theologians.

>There was a very good review of "The God Delusion" in either the New
>York Review of Books or the London Review of Books in the last several
>months. It points out a number of errors and positions not considered by
>Dawkins that are "hidden" in the professional literature of theology. If
>anyone is interested, I can try to run down the citation for the review.

I would be interested, yes. I found Dawkin's book
to be a convincing, if somewhat didactic, summary
of a viewpoint that has seemed to me to be simply
obvious since I was old enough to think about
such matters. Obviously there isn't a God (my own
view is the very idea of God embedded in
Christianity/Judaism/Islam is incoherent), so the
fact that so many people believe there is, is
something that needs to be explained. Dawkins
makes a brave attempt to do this. Its nothing
whatever to do with theology: its more a matter
for evolutionary biology or social psychology.

>(For anyone interested in the complexities of the issue I would suggest
>"Does God Exist?" by Hans Küng as a starting point.)

I find the arguments used there almost absurdly
naive. What should I try next, do you think?

Pat Hayes

>
>Hope you are having a great day!
>
>Patrick
>
>>Perhaps it would be interesting to argue, chaining to previous
>>discussions, that if *all* people suffer from a delusion, it is called
>>'science'.
>>
>>vQ
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Patrick Durusau
>Patrick@xxxxxxxxxxx
>Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>Member, Text Encoding Initiative Board of Directors, 2003-2005
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--
Paola Di Maio****


Lecturer and Researcher
School of Information Technology
Mae Fah Luang University
Chiang Rai
Thailand
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