Dear Ed & all (01)
may I enter the discussion with some naive questions? (02)
- Does this NAIClassification distinguish between individuals and classes?
- Does it distinguish between relations like instanceOf, subclassOf and more
sophisticated ones like locatedIn?
- Does it distinguish between activities (Manufacturing) and agents
(Manufactors)? (03)
I get the impression that not. But from the normative point of view I would
argue that all questions SHOULD be answered in the affirmative. (04)
One example:
BS>Bradley Shoebottom can be classed under Fredericton (05)
Not so, I would say: A city is an invidual; nothing can be classed under it.
There is, however, a class of inhabitants of Fredericton; an individual
person can be an instance of this class. Or BS is locatedIn Fredericton. (06)
Best
Ludger (07)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barkmeyer, Edward J" <edward.barkmeyer@xxxxxxxx>
To: "Ontology Summit 2013 discussion" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Hackathon: BACnet Ontology (08)
>I obviously don't understand what you are doing.
>
>> <Apple>, as an instance of schema.org/Corporation <hasNAICclassification>
>> instance <334111 Electronic Computer Manufacturing> which is an instance
>> of class <33411 Computer and Peripheral Equipment Manufacturing>
>
> There is nothing wrong with modeling a classification of activities as an
> instance of NAICClassification.
> The strange thing is modeling SOME classifications as instances and OTHER
> classifications, e.g., <33411 Computer and Peripheral Equipment
> Manufacturing>, as subclasses.
> Is not 33411... also ontologically an instance of NAICClassification. It
> is a classification, is it not?
> If I assign statistical values, such as "percent of GDP" to NAIC
> Classifications, how do I assign a "percent of GDP" value to 33411?
> With the proposed model, I can only assign "percent of GDP" values to leaf
> classifications.
>
> -Ed
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-
>> summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bradley Shoebottom
>> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 3:17 PM
>> To: Ontology Summit 2013 discussion
>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Hackathon: BACnet Ontology
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> I used the NAIC myself about 4 years ago to classify a particular segment
>> of
>> the NB economy.
>>
>> But from an ontological perspective, organizations should not show up as
>> a
>> child of a particular activities class, but rather have an association to
>> the
>> bottommost item (instance) listed for a particular tree. I can see how
>> the
>> NAIC was used as a simple drop down taxonomy.
>>
>> Organizations are organizations who do an activity that yes can be
>> classified,
>> but it is improper to put them under an activity philosophically. It
>> would be
>> like me saying:
>>
>> Bradley Shoebottom can be classed under Fredericton (the city I live in)
>> in a
>> list of Canadian Cities organized by county, then Province then nation. I
>> am
>> not really a city, rather I am a Frederictonian which is semantically
>> different.
>> Frederictonian implies a person with residency.
>>
>> Using this excerpt from the NAIC.
>>
>> <Apple>, as an instance of schema.org/Corporation <hasNAICclassification>
>> instance <334111 Electronic Computer Manufacturing> which is an instance
>> of class <33411 Computer and Peripheral Equipment Manufacturing>
>>
>> <Apple> also <hasNAICclassification> instance <334210> as a child of
>> <33421
>> Telephone Apparatus Manufacturin>g. Apple is not classed as the
>> broader <3342 Communications Equipment Manufacturing> because that
>> would imply they make radios and TVs.
>>
>> 334 Computer and Electronic Product Manufacturing
>> 3341 Computer and Peripheral Equipment Manufacturing
>> 33411 Computer and Peripheral Equipment Manufacturing
>> 334111 Electronic Computer Manufacturing
>> 334112 Computer Storage Device Manufacturing
>> 334118 Computer Terminal and Other Computer Peripheral Equipment
>> Manufacturing
>> 3342 Communications Equipment Manufacturing
>> 33421 Telephone Apparatus Manufacturing
>> 334210 Telephone Apparatus Manufacturing
>> 33422 Radio and Television Broadcasting and Wireless Communications
>> Equipment Manufacturing
>> 334220 Radio and Television Broadcasting and Wireless
>> Communications
>> Equipment Manufacturing
>> 33429 Other Communications Equipment Manufacturing
>> 334290 Other Communications Equipment Manufacturing
>>
>> After working through this thought process, yes, I can simplify this to a
>> simple
>> rdf class structure with instances being companies instead of the
>> activities,
>> but my tool set still can't easily import the excel file and I either
>> need a script
>> or many enter 2000+ classes and arrange them. I just did a time estimate
>> and
>> it would take 20 seconds per entry or 12 hours in total.
>>
>> I can do this in my free time over the next 2-3 weeks.
>>
>> Bradley Shoebottom
>> Senior Information Architect - Research and Product Development
>> Phone: (506) 674-5439 | Toll-Free: (800) 363-3358
>> Skype: bradley.shoebottom
>> Email: bradley.shoebottom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> www.innovatia.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-
>> summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Barkmeyer, Edward J
>> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 3:28 PM
>> To: Ontology Summit 2013 discussion
>> Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Hackathon: BACnet Ontology
>>
>> Bradley Shoebottom wrote:
>>
>> > Translating the NAIC into rdf is a much bigger job than anticipated.
>> >
>> > IT requires that a script be written to distinguish between classes
>> > and instances (instances are the bottom most number of a tree). I do
>> > not have this skill.
>>
>> Hmm... This takes a particular view of the tree that is somewhat
>> unexpected.
>> According to the NAIC documentation, these are all Classes. The
>> instances
>> are organizations, practices, etc., that participate in those industrial
>> activities.
>> What am I missing?
>>
>> -Ed
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I initially thought I could easily pivot the table to create a tree
>> > and then import, but I do not have those skills in excel.
>> >
>> > My tool does not easily allow the creation of classes from the
>> > spreadsheet. I would be looking at a many day process to develop the
>> > hierarchy and then populate it with instances.
>> >
>> > I am wondering if someone at Reassert is still around that helped
>> > convert the US data gov info into RDF?
>> >
>> > The OmniClass Table 32 has a problem too because many of the Level 2
>> > title use the same title as in other Level 1 categories. The OmniClass
>> > code does changes. The definition remains the same. I So I could
>> > create instances based on the code and when you query the label, you
>> > would potentially get several and you would have to select the correct
>> > parent category. Or, I create instances based on the title name and
>> > include the several codes assigned to the same title with the single
>> > definition. You would be able to find the proper code you want through
>> > the options of the parent class. Once you let me know which you
>> > prefer, it would be easy to implement as my idea would only have the
>> > Level 1 titles be a class (about 10) and the remaining Level 2-4 to be
>> > instances using SKOS broader/narrower to define level 2-4. I can
>> > include
>> synonyms (skos altLabel) and definitions.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Bradley Shoebottom
>> > Senior Information Architect - Research and Product Development
>> > Phone: (506) 674-5439 | Toll-Free: (800) 363-3358
>> > Skype: bradley.shoebottom
>> > Email: bradley.shoebottom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> > www.innovatia.net
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-
>> > summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of MacPherson, Deborah
>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:04 AM
>> > To: 'Ontology Summit 2013 discussion'
>> > Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Hackathon: BACnet Ontology
>> >
>> > Hi Paul
>> >
>> > A few years ago I dug into the NAICS codes and there is already a nice
>> > overlap.
>> >
>> > The OmniClass Services table maps over to these codes, see
>> > [http://www.nationalbimstandard.org/nbims-us-v2/pdf/NBIMS-
>> > US2_c2.8.pdf]
>> >
>> > OmniClass and NAICS sit right next to each other (alphabetically!) on
>> > the DoD Products and Services Report in the Business Enterprise
>> > Architecture 8.1, see
>> > [http://dcmo.defense.gov/products-and-services/business-enterprise-
>> > architecture/8.1/delta/term.htm] however please note 10 is current,
>> > see
>> > [http://dcmo.defense.gov/products-and-services/business-enterprise-
>> > architecture/10.0/classic/index.htm]
>> >
>> > The Department of Energy DOE Building Energy Performance (BEP)
>> > Taxonomy also includes both OmniClass and NAICS, see
>> >
>> [http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/commercial/pdfs/doe_building_e
>> > nergy_performance_taxonomy.pdf]
>> >
>> > I'll look back at the Census spreadsheet and try to mash it up with
>> > some other things, thanks for the link.
>> >
>> > Deborah
>> >
>> > DEBORAH MACPHERSON
>> > Specifications and Research
>> >
>> > Cannon Design
>> > 3030 Clarendon Blvd.
>> > Suite 500
>> > Arlington, VA 22201
>> >
>> > Phone: 703.907.2353
>> > Direct Dial: 2353
>> >
>> > dmacpherson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Cannondesign.com
>> > Skype debmacp
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-
>> > summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pope, Paul Albert
>> > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 6:21 PM
>> > To: Ontology Summit 2013 discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Hackathon: BACnet Ontology
>> >
>> > Deborah, et al.,
>> >
>> > I offer the following (perhaps cursory) info, FYI/FWIW, concerning
>> > your statement "...a part name or number ... that could be mapped to a
>> > generic form for broader exchange purposes" and the general interest
>> > in the "facilities domain."
>> >
>> > North American Industry Classification System (NAICS)
>> > http://www.census.gov/eos/www/naics/
>> > "It was developed jointly by the U.S. Economic Classification Policy
>> > Committee (ECPC), Statistics Canada, and Mexico's Instituto Nacional
>> > de Estadistica y Geografia, to allow for a high level of comparability
>> > in business statistics among the North American countries."
>> > I wish this taxonomy was available in OWL or other format; alas, it is
>> > only(?) available as a spreadsheet:
>> >
>> http://www.census.gov/eos/www/naics/reference_files_tools/2012/2012_
>> > NAICS_Structure.xls
>> >
>> > Concerning "Dining and Drinking Spaces", try entering the keyword
>> > "dining"
>> > into the search text box in the upper left for "2012 NAICS Search".
>> > The last code in the list retrieved is "722511 Full-Service
>> > Restaurants". Click on that link. Not responsible for hunger pangs
>> > that might result ;-)
>> >
>> > B/R,
>> > Paul Pope, Ph.D.
>> > Los Alamos National Laboratory
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ontology-summit-
>> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of MacPherson, Deborah
>> > [dmacpherson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 3:56 PM
>> > To: Ontology Summit 2013 discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Hackathon: BACnet Ontology
>> >
>> > Somewhere in this discussion is a problem that is the essence of what
>> > has been holding up progress in the facilities domain.
>> >
>> > There are ways to publish technical requirements or test for
>> > conformance online for free, and pay (even substantially) to
>> > participate in the working groups or have voting privileges. For
>> > example
>> OGC, W3C.
>> >
>> > I can even see being able to own a part name or number within a larger
>> > communication machine that could be mapped to a generic form for
>> > broader exchange purposes. For example "13-57 13 15 Dining and Drinking
>> Spaces"
>> > versus "The Sand Bar and Grille"
>> >
>> > Depending on the domain, or need for cross disciplinary discussion,
>> > many on the IP-protected side have no interest in supporting, or will
>> > even actively stops progress, on a common model. There is also the
>> > problem of failed common models that do not work, will not accommodate
>> > different object definitions - from software to software or industry
>> > model to industry model - without loss of data or functionality.
>> > Bentley systems has stepped forward in this white
>> > paper<http://ftp2.bentley.com/dist/collateral/docs/bentley_institute/W
>> > hite _paper_IFC.pdf> on the IFC model to say actually - the emperor
>> > has no clothes on. See pages 6 and 7 "Round Tripping"
>> >
>> > For some reason I think ontologies might be a way these IP-With-Open
>> > problems might be fixed but maybe I am wrong or wishing for too much.
>> >
>> > DEBORAH MACPHERSON
>> > Specifications and Research
>> >
>> > Cannon Design
>> > 3030 Clarendon Blvd.
>> > Suite 500
>> > Arlington, VA 22201
>> >
>> > Phone: 703.907.2353
>> > Direct Dial: 2353
>> >
>> >
>> dmacpherson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:dmacpherson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > m>
>> > Cannondesign.com
>> > Skype debmacp
>> >
>> > From: ontology-summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontology-
>> > summit-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Simon Spero
>> > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 5:25 PM
>> > To: Ontology Summit 2013 discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] Hackathon: BACnet Ontology
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Peter R. Benson
>> > <Peter.Benson@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:Peter.Benson@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>> > Deborah, IP is a real issue. We designed the eOTD to try to resolve
>> > some of these issues. In a dictionary the IP resides in the
>> > representation but also in the identifiers or codes as these are always
>> copyright.
>> >
>> > That is not entirely clear; see e.g. SOUTHCO, INC v. KANEBRIDGE
>> > CORPORATION ( http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/021243pe.pdf ),
>> > where part numbers were found to be not protected (but see also how
>> > Alito takes care to distinguish Delta Dental )
>> >
>> > Simon
>> >
>> >
>> __________________________________________________________
>> > _______
>> > Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
>> > Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-
>> > summit/
>> > Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/
>> > Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-
>> > bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013
>> > Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
>> >
>> >
>> __________________________________________________________
>> > _______
>> > Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
>> > Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-
>> > summit/
>> > Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/
>> > Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-
>> > bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013
>> > Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
>> >
>> >
>> __________________________________________________________
>> > _______
>> > Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
>> > Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-
>> > summit/
>> > Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/
>> > Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-
>> > bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013
>> > Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
>>
>> __________________________________________________________
>> _______
>> Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
>> Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-
>> summit/
>> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/
>> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-
>> bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013
>> Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
>>
>> __________________________________________________________
>> _______
>> Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
>> Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-
>> summit/
>> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/
>> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-
>> bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013
>> Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
> Subscribe/Config:
> http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/
> Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/
> Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013
> Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
> (09)
_________________________________________________________________
Msg Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
Subscribe/Config: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontology-summit-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Community Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2013/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2013
Community Portal: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ (010)
|