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Re: [ontology-summit] [BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems

To: "Ontology Summit 2012 discussion" <ontology-summit@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "AzamatAbdoullaev" <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:20:48 +0200
Message-id: <65C0287A10144E65BF69AA4F256880F0@personalpc>

Some preliminary reflections...

Definition: If a System is a Group/Collection/Assemblage of interacting/interrelated/interdependent parts/elements/components comprising a unified whole; the System of Systems (SOS) is a Collection of interacting individual systems comprising an a complex whole. 

Scope: Systems > Complex Systems > Systems of Systems > Complex Problems

Methodology: SOS Ontology > SOS Science > SOS Engineering > SOS Research (Definition, Analysis, Modeling, Simulation,  Design, Development, Execution, Operation, Management)

Applications: from Transportation to ICT Networks to Space Exploration 

Some general descriptions are compiled in PhD thesis on Systems of Systems: Principles, Performance, and Modelling (Held) 

  1. SOS is concerned with interoperability and synergism of Command, Control, Computers, Communications, and Information (C4I) and Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) Systems: description in the field of information superiority in modern military.
  2. SOS is a large-scale concurrent and distributed system comprised of complex systems themselves: description in the field of communicating structures and information systems in private enterprise.
  3. SOS involves the integration of systems into the system of systems that ultimately contribute to evolution of the social infrastructure: description in the field of education of engineers on the importance of systems and their integration.
  4. SOS Integration is a method to pursue development, integration, interoperability, and optimization of systems to enhance performance in future battlefield scenarios: description in the field of information intensive systems integration in the military.
  5. SOS is about five common characteristics: operational independence of the individual systems, managerial independence of the systems, geographical distribution, emergent behavior and evolutionary development: description in the field of evolutionary acquisition of complex adaptive systems in the military.
  6. Enterprise SOS Engineering is about coupling traditional systems engineering activities with enterprise activities of strategic planning and investment analysis: description in the field of information intensive systems in private enterprise.
  7. SOS is a collection of trans-domain networks of heterogeneous systems exhibiting operational and managerial independence, geographical distribution, and emergent and evolutionary behaviors: description in the field of National Transportation System, Integrated Military and Space Exploration.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit][BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems

INCOSE says  the 'system' in 'systems engineering' means:

- an integrated set of elements, subsystems, or assemblies that accomplish
a defined objective. These elements include products (hardware, software,
firmware), processes, people, information, techniques, facilities, services,
and other support elements. (INCOSE) An example would be an air
transportation system.

System of system is then:

System‐of‐systems applies to a system‐of‐interest whose system
elements are themselves systems; typically these entail large
scale inter‐disciplinary problems with multiple, heterogeneous,
distributed systems.

and system of interest is:

System‐of‐interest the system whose life cycle is under consideration

ISO/IEC 15288:2008 Systems engineering ? System life‐cycle processes says:

- a combination of interacting elements organized to achieve one or more
stated purposes

FWIW I happen to be in the middle of making a SKOS instantiation of the INCOSE SE Handbook terms and definitions for a NIST investigation.

Cheers,
David

On 2/7/2012 5:42 PM, Mike Bennett wrote:
Surely a system is something for which there are things which have part-hood relationships to that thing. Having parts would be what distinguishes a system (at this most general level) from a bunch of stuff.

Just a suggestion.

Mike

On 07/02/2012 17:25, joseph simpson wrote:
The first step in this process is defining a system.

If you can not define a system then you can not define a complex system or a system of systems.

So, I still wonder if we have developed distinction criteria for a system.

(A "system of systems" is by definition a system.)

Have fun,

Joe

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 9:07 AM, AzamatAbdoullaev <abdoul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"We've learned that our companies, our cities and our world are complex systems-indeed, systems of systems": http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/overview/ideas/index.html?lnk=ussph2.12 
 
I still wonder if we have developed the distinction criteria for the complex systems and the systems of systems.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit][BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems

Yuriy:

Because the name of this track is Big Systems and Systems Engineering this topic fits under the topic of mathematics (a very big system).

However, engineering in general is a bit different and systems engineering is even more different.

Engineering is the act of applying mathematics and scientific principles to the solution of practical problems.

So, math is a tool used by engineers to solve problems.

Then there are systems science and metasystems methodology that set the context for the application of systems engineering.

There is little or no magic involved in these well defined approaches and processes for designing, developing, deploying and operating large-scale systems.

However, as Arthur C. Clarke detailed in his three laws, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

In my mind we are discussing a very advanced technology that integrates large stores of data, information and technology.

It is not magic.

Take care and have fun,

Joe

2012/2/3 Yuriy Milov <qdone@xxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Joe,
 
If a () system of () systems exists then a (very (simple)) system is still a system of (very (very (simple))) system. 
 
It's amaizing to know a very simple system which demonstrates very complex behavior. This is a fantastic gift. We do not deserv it - but we have it! :)
 
We could think that the natural numbers (1,2,3,4,5,6,7.. so on) is simple. Are we sure?
 
Let's choose a natural number  n1 (free, spontaneously, without any reasons - just any of natural numbers) and  then let's choose again any natural number n2  (free, spontaneously, without any reasons - just any of natural numbers).
 
The more freedom of choice we have - the more chances that n2>n1
 
Absolute freedom of choice makes n2>n1 guaranteed
 
The reason of this is that there is no a biggest natural number (that is also an amazing fact, by the way)
 
We (people) are finite (in space and time) pretty simple entities. How can we understand infinity?
 
The answer is - because ae are able to play with a freedom of choice - thanks for the great gift - the natural numbers :) 
 
The  logistic equations and cellular automata are magic wands whaich transform complex system of systems in a simple set 1,2,3 and so on :)
 
Yuri
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [ontology-summit] [BigSystemsandSystemsEngineering]Systemofsystems

The logistic equation is a math model of the behavior of a living system.

A very simple system can demonstrate very complex behavior.

In my view this is another example of general systems theory (GST) where a specific branch of science was generalized into mathematics and applied in many places.

However, this is behavior of a simple system, not a system of systems or an industrial system.

Have fun,

Joe

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Yuriy Milov <qdone@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Jack,

I think the metod is to follow the cascade of bifurcation which has the
universal mesure (a sort of the delta number which can be got from
experiment/experience)

The magics here is our ability to distinguish the related and unrelated
events -  where the bifurcated branchs (splitted paths) belongs one tree
(one way)

Sorry if it is too vague methafora - I do some urgent job right now

Yuri

 


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