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Re: [ontolog-forum] Fruit fly emotions mimic human emotions - ontology d

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Rich Cooper" <metasemantics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:28:42 -0700
Message-id: <035c01d09250$deb57fa0$9c207ee0$@com>

Dear John,

 

JFS: If anybody comes up with a really good combination, I would express something between Happy and Surprise.  But I'm not holding my breath.

 

John

 

If you did hold your breath so far, you must've been holding your breath for centuries, since that is how long people have been wondering and hypothesizing about emotions with very little progress. 

 

We haven't made progress beyond sophomoric belief statements about what emotions exist in people and why they are there.  Freud seems to have been the first and most prolific until Jung eclipsed him. 

 

Even naming emotions is a language game.  I could find all kinds of new emotion words: pensive, thoughtful, uncommitted, balanced judgment, ... you can find fifty more if you look hard in the next six hundred seconds. 

 

Then there are ways each researcher has enumerated the "basic" emotions.  All this is without experimental support that clearly and unambiguously differentiates the truly basic emotions.  So we are stuck with multiple models at this moment which compete to (only partially) represent emotional stimuli and behaviors. 

 

But as you mentioned re arthropods, the emotions have been around for at least five hundred million years, so they must have some useful survival value.  The question which has not been properly asked and answered yet is specifically how, when, and why, the various emotions offer their survival advantages, versus the costs against survival in the same or other situations. 

 

Knowing those models of behavior, can we tighten the recognition specs, iteration after iteration, experiment after experiment, until we find those fabled "basic" emotions. 

 

The next step might be to instrument newborn flies and watch the progress of their learning how to use the emotions well or badly. 

 

The nice thing about experimenting with a very, very simplified emotional model such as the fruit fly, is that we can assume less complexity in the subject's emotional application strategy and tactics. 

 

Perhaps all fruit flies have the same emotional ontology, but I would bet against it long before betting for it.  Fruit flies are simple, but they are not self destructive.  They survive. 

 

With the plans Anderson has discussed in that YouTube video, it seems there might be some small breakthroughs ahead in understanding emotions as driving motivations for many fly behaviors.  Can we scale those understandings to humans?  Stay tuned to find out. 

 

JFS> There have been many, many such models over the centuries.  For a model developed by the psychologist David Matsumoto and applied to "human intelligence", see http://www.humintell.com/macroexpressions-microexpressions-and-subtle-expressions/

 

Thanks, I'll read it.  From previous readings, there are numerous versions of what each psychologist thinks is recognizable as an _expression_ of emotional behavior.  So the whole field is in full disarray at the moment.  Perhaps this Cal Tech work on the Fruit Fly can organize the various research projects on a more interchangeable set of basic emotions and behaviors so someone can develop huge data sets for analysis. 

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper,

Rich Cooper,

 

Chief Technology Officer,

MetaSemantics Corporation

MetaSemantics AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

( 9 4 9 ) 5 2 5-5 7 1 2

http://www.EnglishLogicKernel.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F Sowa
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 9:02 AM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Fruit fly emotions mimic human emotions - ontology discovery possible?

 

On 5/18/2015 7:44 PM, Rich Cooper wrote:

> I am interested in the emotions, their interrelationships, and math

> models of how they work in a library of situations.

 

There have been many, many such models over the centuries.

For a model developed by the psychologist David Matsumoto and applied to "human intelligence", see http://www.humintell.com/macroexpressions-microexpressions-and-subtle-expressions/

 

That page has 7 sample faces that express his "universal facial expressions of emotion":  Happy, Surprise, Contempt, Sadness, Anger, Disgust, and Fear.  It also cites some publications that describe applications of that classification.

 

> I am looking for an algorithm that could, with sizeable numbers of

> fruit flies, and sizeable numbers of situations experimentally

> simulated to the flies, elicit the ontology of the fruit fly's

> response CLASS TYPEs through observing the behavior of the fruit flies.

 

I got that message from your previous note.

 

JFS

> Don't expect a "unified theory" based on a simple combination of

> features or components.

 

RC

> But do use a simple framework of combinations of the common components

> to explore the emotion space.

 

Philosophers, psychologists, psychiatrists, and neuroscientists have devoted many person-millennia to exploring the "emotion space"

with a huge number of simple and complex frameworks.

 

If anybody comes up with a really good combination, I would express something between Happy and Surprise.  But I'm not holding my breath.

 

John

 

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