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Re: [ontolog-forum] Fruit fly emotions mimic human emotions - ontology d

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Thomas Johnston <tmj44p@xxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 14:06:23 +0000 (UTC)
Message-id: <585827966.3381367.1432130783632.JavaMail.yahoo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
I don't know how we could derive ontological categories from observations of fruit files, even from observations correlated with identifiable patterns of stimuli in identifiable regions of the fly's brain (something, anyway, which I doubt can be reliably done). 

If a fruit fly flies off in one direction, is it flying towards a desired object (a mate, food) or away from a feared object (a bird, any other large moving object)? If it is flying towards a mate, that's how we would describe what it's doing. But in what sense does the fly itself have the concept of a mate?

If we drain the concept of concept of enough meaning, than any pattern of behavior could be said to manifest the use of a concept in making a judgement (the judgement to carry out that behavior). And the concept we attribute, in those attenuated cases, will be very much a product of our own interpretative prejudices. The fruit fly ontology we come up with will be more or less an Alice in Wonderland ontology.

And if we drain the concept of concept of enough meaning to attribute concepts (ontological categories) to fruit flies, then I think it's not a very big step beyond that to attribute desire and hunger to Venus fly traps!


On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:02 PM, John F Sowa <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 5/18/2015 7:44 PM, Rich Cooper wrote:
> I am interested in the emotions, their interrelationships,
> and math models of how they work in a library of situations.

There have been many, many such models over the centuries.
For a model developed by the psychologist David Matsumoto and
applied to "human intelligence", see

That page has 7 sample faces that express his "universal facial
expressions of emotion":  Happy, Surprise, Contempt, Sadness, Anger,
Disgust, and Fear.  It also cites some publications that describe
applications of that classification.

> I am looking for an algorithm that could, with sizeable numbers
> of fruit flies, and sizeable numbers of situations experimentally
> simulated to the flies, elicit the ontology of the fruit fly's
> response CLASS TYPEs through observing the behavior of the fruit flies.

I got that message from your previous note.

> Don't expect a "unified theory" based on a simple combination
> of features or components.

> But do use a simple framework of combinations of the common
> components to explore the emotion space.

Philosophers, psychologists, psychiatrists, and neuroscientists
have devoted many person-millennia to exploring the "emotion space"
with a huge number of simple and complex frameworks.

If anybody comes up with a really good combination, I would express
something between Happy and Surprise.  But I'm not holding my breath.

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