Re: [ontolog-forum] Fruit fly emotions mimic human emotions - ontology d

[Ravi Sharma <drravisharma@xxxxxxxxx>]

John

There is a saying in Sanskrit

"munde munde matih bhinna"

Approx. translation, minds are differentiated.

Regards,

Ravi

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:16 PM, John F Sowa <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Rich,

Thanks for the references:

> http://www.caltech.edu/news/do-fruit-flies-have-emotions-46769
>
> Here is a TEDx talk by the same professor (David Anderson):
>
> http://tedxcaltech.caltech.edu/content/david-anderson

One point that Anderson makes confirms a claim that I have often
repeated:  there is a huge amount of diversity or heterogeneity in
the way different parts of the brain work.

Anderson noted that the same chemical -- dopamine in this case --
had very different effects in different parts of the brain.  A pill
that increases or decreases dopamine levels in all parts of the
brain would be a very crude tool.

RC
> Would it be possible to automate an evoked response that demonstrates
> each emotional state designated by the professor as a "component"?
> If so, would it then be possible to write an ontology discovery program
> that explores that space using a buncha fruit flies crossed with a
> buncha experimental situations?

Note what he said:  if you consider dopamine level as a feature or
component, it's going to have different effects on different circuits.
Any theory based on a weighted sum of inputs (as many neural networks
and related methods do) is going to be a very gross oversimplification.
It might give useful results for some purposes, but not for others.

For anybody who wants to know more about the brains of insects and
other arthropods, I recommend the following book:

    Strausfeld, Nicholas James (2012) Arthropod Brains: Evolution,
    Functional Elegance, and Historical Significance, Cambrdge, MA:
    Harvard University Press.

The price is $68.50 at Harvard U. P., Amazon, or Barnes & Noble.
But it's beautifully illustrated -- it's like a technical coffee
table book.

I did a bit of googling and found a recent discovery by Strausfeld:
> http://www.livescience.com/23862-oldest-arthropod-brain-complex.html

One of his colleagues had found a fossil of an arthropod that was
520 million years old.  While examining it, Strausfeld could see
"the dark brown silhouette of preserved brain nestled in the arthropod's
skull":
> This complex, insectlike brain suggests that rather than insects
> arising from simple branchiopods, today's arthropods descend from a
> complex-brained ancestor. Branchiopods would later have shed some of
> this complexity, Strausfeld said, while other crustaceans and insects
> kept it. In fact, he said, the brain may have evolved to segment into
> three parts very early on; mammals, including humans, have a forebrain,
> midbrain and hindbrain, suggesting a common organization.

If the overall structure has been preserved for over 500 million years,
it must be important.  Any claim that the brain is a homogenous lump
with all neurons working in the same ways to do the same things must be
oversimplified.  There may be some similar low-level mechanisms, but
they perform different functions in different parts of the structure.

Bottom line:  Don't expect a "unified theory" based on a simple
combination of features or components.

John

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--

Thanks.
Ravi
(Dr. Ravi Sharma)
313 204 1740 Mobile

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