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Re: [ontolog-forum] Grand Unified Theories

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <Avril.Styrman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Rich Cooper" <Rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 11:41:39 -0700
Message-id: <037e01d059cf$85380dd0$8fa82970$@com>

Dear Avril and John,

 

John wrote:

RC

> How do we determine, when a new theory is postulated, where its

> predictions mismatch experiment?  There should be a tool for that.

 

There is a tool.  It's called mathematics.  For a theory that covers as much territory as DU (namely, all of physics), the amount of testing required is huge.  If DU merely changed a few minor assumptions, it would be relatively easy to check a limited number of implications.

 

Yes, our knowledge of Math is a finite database of states and equations among them, as imposed by observed rules of physics and other constraints.  We can model all kinds of universes and postulate diversities of various types, dipping into various mathematized constraints, which we use to simulate the universe.  That way we can simulate the system to the degree that our theories predict the outcome of the simulation.  That can rid you of some seriously expensive mistakes that are only obvious after you first encounter them. 

 

But DU makes fundamental changes in the basic definitions.  There is a century of experience in using those definitions to make predictions that agree with observation.  Physicists are not going to make a revolutionary change without a lot more testing and analysis.

 

John

 

That is why there is a need for that tool.  Does something like Mathematica do that?  I haven’t used any algebra software in years. 

 

Sincerely,

Rich Cooper,

Rich Cooper,

www DOT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com

( 9 4 9 ) 5 2 5-5 7 1 2

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John F Sowa
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 10:59 AM
To: Avril.Styrman@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Grand Unified Theories

 

Avril and Rich,

 

JFS

>> Simplicity is an important criterion.  But simplicity (like

>> beauty, taste, elegance, etc.) is in the eye of the beholder.

 

AS

> Do you really think that simplicity is in the eye of the beholder?

 

I mean it in *exactly* the same sense as beauty, taste, and elegance.

You can find cases where the difference is so great that most people

will make the same choice.  But there is an overwhelming amount of

disagreement about intermediate cases.

 

Nominalists, such as Quine, have used Ockham as an excuse for the

claim that a theory without abstract entities is "simpler" than

a theory that postulates them.  But even Quine admits that you

have to admit the existence of sets (or something similar) if you

want to define all of mathematics.  That "simple" admission opens

the door to the unending hierarchy of infinities.

 

I enjoy citing Alonzo Church's talk about the ontology of women

and abstract entities.  He deliberately presented that talk at

Harvard -- because he liked to annoy Quine:

 

    http://www.jfsowa.com/ontology/church.htm

 

AS

> Is it subjective that the standard model requires that around 70%

> of the total energy must be dark energy, whereas DU does not require

> dark energy at all? Recall that dark energy was added in the 90's

> in order to make the model match the observations.

 

Even the physicists who proposed dark energy agree that it's a

complication, and they've been searching for ways to explain it

or eliminate it.

 

RC

> How do we determine, when a new theory is postulated, where its

> predictions mismatch experiment?  There should be a tool for that.

 

There is a tool.  It's called mathematics.  For a theory that covers

as much territory as DU (namely, all of physics), the amount of testing

required is huge.  If DU merely changed a few minor assumptions, it

would be relatively easy to check a limited number of implications.

 

But DU makes fundamental changes in the basic definitions.  There is

a century of experience in using those definitions to make predictions

that agree with observation.  Physicists are not going to make a

revolutionary change without a lot more testing and analysis.

 

John

 

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