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Re: [ontolog-forum] Discussion re reasoning about Time and State with RE

To: "'[ontolog-forum] '" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Matthew West" <dr.matthew.west@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 18:10:31 +0100
Message-id: <004301cfbd62$d084c300$718e4900$@gmail.com>
Dear John,    (01)


EJB
> There is no good model for all problems.    (02)

That is the understatement of the year.    (03)

I would add that even for a single project -- say designing an airplane, a
house, or a computer -- there are a huge number of problems that require
different models.  And those models are *rarely, if ever* consistent with
one another when you get down to the grubby details of each.    (04)

MW
> The important thing to take from this is not that it is too difficult, 
> but that you need to think about how time relates to the requirements 
> you are trying to meet, and make sure you have a model that is fit for 
> purpose. A particularly bad approach is to start with a current state 
> model and then try to add change, history and time later.    (05)

For any particular model, that's true.  But note that even for designing a
house (a typical one-family home), there are a large number of different
models.  All of them have to be consistent (to a good approximation) with
the map drawn up by the surveyor and the blueprints drawn up by the
architect.    (06)

But all the subcontractors come with their own models (usually
mental):  plumbers, electricians, carpenters, landscapers, excavators, etc.
Try discussing identity conditions with them.
A blank stare is preferable to some remarks they might make.
[MW>] Yes. You are left with a number of options, including:
 - give up, it's just too difficult (but then pay for the resulting
mistakes)
 - make them conform to your ontology (it's part of the contract, so they
don't get paid till they do)
 - allow them to use their ontology (and probably help them discover it) and
then map the result to your own.    (07)

Now multiply those issues by thousands, if you're trying to design a Boeing
787 or Airbus 380.  It's no wonder that those projects weren't finished on
time and within budget.
[MW>] Or off-shore oil rigs, my own area. We have the people for doing the
aircraft in ISO TC184/SC4 too, so we have a good grasp of the issues with
large engineering projects. The good news is that although you are unlikely
to get everything right, the more you try, the fewer mistakes you make. I.e.
even though it is very difficult, you get a payback for the efforts you
make, and degradation is relatively graceful.    (08)

By the way, I attended a talk last week about data mining in bioinformatics.
The speaker said that he talked with many of the physicians at a large,
modern hospital.  None of them had heard anything about ontology or the
related terms that we kick around on this list.
[MW>] That's not a surprise. The same would probably happen at a conference
on Engineering Informatics.    (09)

If they happen to choose a formally defined term from a menu, what is the
likelihood that their intended use is consistent with the formal definition?
[MW>] Or the intended interpretation. I try to make sure the term includes
sufficient qualifiers that at least major alternatives are excluded.    (010)

Regards    (011)

Matthew West                            
Information  Junction
Mobile: +44 750 3385279
Skype: dr.matthew.west
matthew.west@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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This email originates from Information Junction Ltd. Registered in England
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Registered office: 8 Ennismore Close, Letchworth Garden City, Hertfordshire,
SG6 2SU.    (012)



John    (013)

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