On Fri, April 12, 2013 14:25, jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: (01)
> ... an idea is an insight about
> an outcome SHOULD a certain action be performed, (02)
This is a non-standard definition of the concept "idea". The modern
American English definition is
"Something, such as a thought or conception, that potentially
or actually exists in the mind as a product of mental activity."
[American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language]
A Compact Oxford Dictionary definition is closer to your meaning:
"a thought or suggestion as to a possible course of action"
in that it refers to action. (03)
However, the statements that memes are ideas have seemed to me
to refer to the American Heritage definition. (04)
> while a 'meme' is a statement of action
> derived-from/supportive-of a particualr outcome: (05)
This property of 'meme' doesn't correlate well with a housing style
being a meme. (06)
> idea = action --implies--> result --yields--> outcome
>
> meme = outcome --implies--> action --yields--> result (07)
> At the risk of sounding like a conspiracist,
> the 'god' meme is a good example of a meme because
> it PROCEEDED FROM the desire of a cabal to cement power
> among themselves, as arbiters of the essence of life itself. (08)
Gods have arisen in cultures around the world. The initial
ostensible purpose was to explain the hows and whys of
things that weren't immediately obvious. Why don't the sun and
moon fall from the sky. What makes them go around? How did
life (and various forms of it) originate? What happens after one
dies? How did [particular geological feature] originate? (09)
Cabals have formed to achieve power by setting themselves
up as intermediaries between the people and the meme, gaining
control over the meme. However, i would guess that in the
majority of cases, those who currently are those intermediaries
including the top people in most religions truly believe in the meme. (010)
Of course, many sects would be counter-examples. (011)
> The 'god' meme wasn't developed to further the
> social goal of good nutrition. (012)
Sure. But it was used for that. Religions promote treating others fairly,
refraining from theft, murder, assault, lying to get people in trouble,
respecting elders, and other beneficial social goals. However, they also
promote their own welfare and the welfare of their leaders, and often
have harmful policies against those who support competing religions. (013)
> The 'god' meme is not at all about
> whether a higher entity exists, it is more about with whom that entity
> negotiates. (014)
The *meme* would be the popular conception of the god(s). That IS
about whether higher entities exist and about their features. The
religion can have other features. (015)
-- doug f (016)
> -john
>
> On 12.04.2013 08:39, John F Sowa wrote:
>
>> On
> 4/12/2013 10:14 AM, jmcclure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
>>
>>> A very
> well-known meme in the political sphere is that "tax cuts generate
> growth"
>>
>> I would call that a slogan, as in "campaign slogan". As Ali
> noted,
>> the only reason why it keeps getting bandied about is that the
> Koch
>> Brothers fund hype machines (AKA think tanks) that promote it.
>>
>
>> That was my point. The word 'meme' has no defining characteristics
>>
> that distinguish it from 'idea' or from terms that express an idea,
>>
> such as 'slogan'.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
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