Dear Doug,
My comments are interspersed below,
-Rich
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
On Mon, March 26, 2012
17:12, Rich Cooper wrote:
>[doug foxvog] and I
wrote:
>
> RC:> One way to
view context is as a collection of
> > properties and
relations
> > about a
situation. In that view, context is
> > possibly
physical, and
> > possibly
conceptual, but not necessarily either.
> DF:>I meant that a
context is a conceptual
> construct. It
seems that you are
> referring to the
physical definition of the
> context, which i
referred to
> in the next sentence.
It seems to me that a context, which
may be a conceptual construct, is simply a way of describing what is salient
about the situation. I am not (at least not intentionally) referring to
the physical aspect any more than the conceptual or social (or whatever other
categories can be identified).
Context is the identification of the
objects, properties, relationships and actions that are represented in a set of
situations, IMHO. What is done with, to or for the context depends
entirely on the application, IMHO.
>> RC:> For
example, if I am recording objects and
>> their properties
in a database, then a query
> DF:>A query is a
conceptual object and has a
> conceptual
structure. If the
> query is seen as
merely a string of 1s and 0s, it
> can not be used until
> it is interpreted to
have some meaning by mapping
> it to some conceptual
structure.
Why do you consider a query to ALWAYS
be conceptual? It seems much less black and white to me. Queries
can have to do with retrieving proofs of the query’s underlying
assumptions. Some queries will return empty sets, while others return the
situations that have been encountered somewhere in the database.
RC:
> The word
"context" is widely used in computer
> science to mean all
the information required to
> perform some
function(s).
I think you are referring
to a "task context" here.
A task context is one type of context,
but only one. A design context identifies constraints within which a
design must be configured. A communication context identifies what
linguistic concerns have been expressed by the participants. An
educational context relates to the sources of information and to the ways in which
that information appears.
I am referring to
something else, an "ontological
context", which has
been discussed a lot on the
ontolog forum. It
refers to the state of affairs in which
some set of statements is
true. It can be modeled as
an ontological object, for
example a Cyc #$Microtheory.
OK
> For example,
[android.content.Context]
Here, you are referencing
a Java Class i have never heard of. Yes, people often name objects and
classes in object-oriented languages with English words. However, that
does not mean that in normal conversation, someone using one of those words means
every specific piece of code that someone has happened to assign that name to.
Agreed
> I am curious; why do
you feel that a context is
> conceptual any more
than some other glob of memory
> which, as you say,
has to be interpreted to be
> useful?
A glob of memory is not a
conceptual thing. A representational object modeled by that glob of
memory is a conceptual thing. A context -- in the context of this forum 8)# --
is not a glob of memory. However, in some languages it can be modeled to
a certain extent by a formatted data structure. And that structure can be
encoded in a glob of memory (or an unlimited number of globs of memory).
While the glob of memory is not
conceptual, it contains representations, but those representations could simply
be designations to other things, conceptual, physical and social among others.
Note:
* The memory is physical
information bearing object.
True
* The data structure is a
non-physical pattern and can be
instantiated
in an unlimited number of memory objects.
I consider the pattern to be physical
in that it is stored in a physical substrate, such as electronic memory.
·
The represented thing (the
context) is in this case non-physical. It can be represented by a large
number of data structures in a large number of representational systems.
OK
The information bearing
object, the data structure, and the
represented thing are all
different things -- and different types of things.
True
In CycL, the memory is an
instance of #$InformationBearingObject (which is a subclass of
#$InformationBearingThing which covers events, such #$SingingAnAria as well as
objects). The data
structure is an instance
of #$AbstractInformationStructure, and the Context is an instance of neither.
-- doug
Thanks for your thoughtful post,
-Rich
> -Rich
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rich Cooper
>
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
>
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>
> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> Behalf Of doug foxvog
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 8:10 AM
> To: '[ontolog-forum] '
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum]
metaphysis, semantics
> and the research program of ontologies
>
>
>
> On Sun, March 25, 2012 13:52, Rich Cooper wrote:
>
>> doug foxvog wrote:
>
>
>
>>> Or course, what can be physically
measured
> depends upon context. In
>
>>> various contexts, things beyond a certain
> (temporal or linear) scale would
>
>>> be out of context and not part of that
> context's physical reality. And,
>
>>> of course, context is a conceptual, not
> physical concept -- although it
>
>>> may be given a physical definition.
>
>
>
>> One way to view context is as a collection of
> properties and relations
>
>> about a situation. In that view,
context is
> possibly physical, and
>
>> possibly conceptual, but not necessarily
either.
>
>
>
> I meant that a context is a conceptual construct.
> It seems that you are
>
> referring to the physical definition of the
> context, which i referred to
>
> in the next sentence.
>
>
>
>> For example, if I am recording objects and
their
> properties in a database,
>
>> then a query
>
>
>
> A query is a conceptual object and has a
> conceptual structure. If the
>
> query is seen as merely a string of 1s and 0s, it
> can not be used until
>
> it is interpreted to have some meaning by mapping
> it to some conceptual
>
> structure.
>
>
>
>> which returns a situation description may
have
> either
>
>> conceptual structure (if they are MY concepts
> that were recorded) or
>
>> physical structure (if the returned values
are
> solely physical SENSOR
>
>> measurements).
>
>
>
> Sure. The conceptual context may include in
its
> physical definition a
>
> conceptually selected time frame and a
> conceptually selected set of
>
> sensors and their readings. The individual
> readings may be more than
>
> merely binary values, but given a conceptual
> meaning, for example,
>
> temperature in degrees Kelvin, pressure in
> Pascals, time in milliseconds
>
> offset from T0, etc.
>
>
>
>> In actual practice, a context can mix both
> physical and subjective
>
>> ('conceptual' if you prefer) estimates of
> reality, and usually does in
>
>> most practical database applications.
>
>
>
> I do not use 'conceptual' to mean 'subjective'.
>
>
>
> I think that this is really the key to the
> discussion.
>
>
>
> I define 'conceptual' as something that is a
> construct of one or more minds.
>
>
>
>> So, IMHO, situations are every bit as
slippery
> and subjective as concepts.
>
>> Situations are just more articulated
since they
> usually comprise both
>
>> concepts and sensor readings.
>
>
>
> First, i was not considering contexts to be
> situations. They are quite
>
> different things.
>
>
>
> Having said that, i agree that situations are
> slippery concepts. Their
>
> boundaries are subjective. The temporal and
> spatial limits of a storm
>
> are defined arbitrarily. What situations
and
> events count as subevents
>
> or sub-situations of a war? How are breaks
in
> thought considered when
>
> examining the situation of my responding to this
> email?
>
>
>
> -- doug
>
>
>
>
>
>> -Rich
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Sincerely,
>
>>
>
>> Rich Cooper
>
>>
>
>> EnglishLogicKernel.com
>
>>
>
>> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>
>>
>
>> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>
>> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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