Dear Hans, (01)
Thanks for a vivid description of how we interface
with knowledge every day. I agree that we take a
lot of those concepts for granted. We each have
layers of purpose that we have constructed habits
and patterns of response to daily issues. But no
movie critic has been universally accepted as
speaking truth about which movies are better. It
is all in the reviewer's mental structures about
whether he likes the movie or not. Very few
concepts are universally agreed to. And those are
concepts that have been inculcated into us from
decades of "common" educational processes,
cultural repetition, and other transient
constraints which will be different in the next
generation than they were in our parents'. (02)
-Rich (03)
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2 (04)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Hans Polzer
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:53 PM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] metaphysis,semantics
and the research program of ontologies (05)
Rich, John: (06)
Another thing to keep in mind is that conceptual
reality includes things
like countries and corporations and driver's
licenses. It's not just about
representing concepts in logic - it's about
representing the reality that
human society has created around these concepts.
Society hasn't just created
the concept of a corporation - it has created
millions of actual
corporations - not detectable in physical reality
other than through
surrogates (i.e., the IBM corporation is NOT the
building in Armonk -which
could be sold tomorrow - or any of its myriad
other physical possessions).
How does one detect and represent such conceptual
realities in "cyberspace"?
Where is most of your money in physical reality?
Not in your mattress, I
suspect, nor in gold bars or other physically
detectable manifestations.
Heck, most people don't even get stock
certificates anymore. How do we
represent the conceptual reality of your money in
cyberspace? Or the Prime
Meridian? You won't see in in satellite
photographs of the Earth or pick it
up on radar. But we sure behave as if it were
there and it most definitely
used by Google Maps and Google Earth, among many
many other systems. So
where do we go in cyberspace to access these
conceptual realities? What are
the "authoritative" sources for these various
realities if we can't rely on
our own senses, or radars, temperature sensors, or
other physical reality
sensors to obtain this information about our
environment ourselves. And what
biases are introduced by the sources we select?
Will some corporations
"disappear" from some of our sources because
"Anonymous" has some run in
with them? Or because some religious group doesn't
like them? Social reality
is created by the particular social context and
scope we select as the
primary source of information about conceptual
reality, this forum being a
case in point. (07)
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Rich Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:22 PM
To: '[ontolog-forum] '
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] metaphysis, semantics
and the research program
of ontologies (08)
Actually, talking about "conceptual" versus
physical or social types is
essential to constructing a design for an ontology
implementation. How to
represent something that is conceptual versus
physical or social is a
tightly coupled design decision with
responsiveness, throughput, and
resource requirements. That's from the
engineering point of view. (09)
>From the validity point of view, I have suggested
that all concepts are recorded by subjective
person(s) and that subjectivity remains in those
persons who did NOT record
concepts. The validity of a conceptualization is
proven by having other
users, both actual and prospective, tell you that
they like the results or
they do not like them.
Since I claim that ontologies are recorded by
subjective agents (persons,
whatever ..), it is unlikely that other persons of
different experiences
will be fully comfortable with most
conceptualizations. No matter how
theoretically pure and historic a
conceptualization is, it also has to be
useful to the audience for which it is intended.
It has to work and work
properly for the users in order to be a valid
conceptualization. (010)
JMHO,
-Rich (011)
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2 (012)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of John F. Sowa
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:18 PM
To: ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] metaphysis, semantics
and the research program
of ontologies (013)
Folks, (014)
In philosophy, metaphysics and ontology are often
considered synonymous. (015)
Much of this discussion deals with issues that are
on the borderline of
logic and ontology. Questions about contexts are
among them. (016)
Talk about whether or not something is
"conceptual" is not helpful.
It is much more appropriate to cite examples from
the literature about how
various researchers and implementers have used
logic and computational
logics to represent those topics. (017)
John (018)
__________________________________________________
_______________
Message Archives:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-f
orum/
Unsubscribe:
mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePa
ge#nid1J (019)
__________________________________________________
_______________
Message Archives:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-f
orum/
Unsubscribe:
mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/ To join:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePa
ge#nid1J (020)
__________________________________________________
_______________
Message Archives:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-f
orum/
Unsubscribe:
mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To join:
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePa
ge#nid1J (021)
_________________________________________________________________
Message Archives: http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/
Config Subscr: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontolog-forum/
Unsubscribe: mailto:ontolog-forum-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shared Files: http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/
Community Wiki: http://ontolog.cim3.net/wiki/
To join: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J (022)
|