JohnS, (01)
Could you expound on secondness a bit more? It sounds like you want to
have dyadic predicates but apply them to ternary relationships. Or, you
may be referring to attributes rather than entities. I'm not certain. (02)
Searle uses "dog" as an example of firstness. Dog has multiple
attributes; "color", "demeanor", "size". (03)
He also uses "mother" as an example of secondness. "Louise" as a mother
that has multiple attributes; "role=mother", "job=employer", "child=Maria". (04)
We could argue that the 1st and 3rd attributes have a relationship for
Louise. In this sense, because we are talking about attributes rather
than elements we could try and distinguish the two discussions of "dog"
and "Louise" because "dog" refers to a thing, while Louisa's entities
are attributes. (05)
However, one could argue that for any given entity there may be a
relationship between the element and its properties, or one property and
another. Such an example might be "eye_color=blue" and "hearing=deaf"
for Fluffy the cat. Are you arguing that that information of this type
should be captured in the instance (or type) for cats (06)
To argue that "mother" is measured differently makes reference to
another actor who can provide authority of being a mother. However, for
the ontology of "Louise" that should not be considered. What is
important is that Louise believes she has a daughter "Maria". (07)
-John Bottoms
FirstStar Systems
Concord, MA USA (08)
On 3/30/2012 11:38 AM, John F. Sowa wrote:
> Mike,
>
>> I think the semiotic dimension is an important one and could
>> possibly be given some kind of formal treatment in modeling
>> languages or in models somehow.
> Yes. More generally, every language is a system of signs, and every
> model is also a system of signs. Those signs are related to signs
> inside the computer, and all of them have some relationship to reality,
> directly or indirectly.
>
>> Sometimes people seem to conflate these, or try to interpret ontological
>> or semiotic issues by framing them in terms of meta-levels...
> Metalevels can be important for many purposes, but that is just one kind
> of semiotic relationship. For more discussion of metalevels and their
> relationship to semiotics, see the following two articles:
>
> http://www.jfsowa.com/pubs/laws.htm
> Laws, Facts, and Contexts
>
> http://www.jfsowa.com/pubs/rolelog.pdf
> The role of logic and ontology in language
>
> The rolelog.pdf article covers a lot of ground, but Section 2, called
> A Semiotic Foundation for Ontology, is a brief intro to Peirce's
> categories, including some issues about metalevels.
>
>> Of course OWL already addresses the semiotic dimension by making
>> everything a Thing.
> Actually, the category Thing is just a placeholder for the top of the
> hierarchy. It maps to a predicate T(x), which is true of everything
> and says nothing.
>
> The major problem with OWL is that it cannot represent triadic
> relations, and its use of dyadic relations is extremely limited.
> Those limitations make it impossible to use OWL for defining or
> even discussing anything related to social and institutional issues.
>
> OWL is useful as a tool for exchanging terminologies. But for
> ontology, using OWL is like putting on blinders that make it
> impossible to see anything that's not in front of your nose.
>
> John
>
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