What about situations that comprise both physical and nonphysical objects,
such as the filled-out title of my car? (01)
-Rich (02)
Sincerely,
Rich Cooper
EnglishLogicKernel.com
Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2 (03)
-----Original Message-----
From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 8:59 PM
To: [ontolog-forum]
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] do not trust quantifiers (04)
On Thu, September 23, 2010 13:30, Rich Cooper said:
> Following this thread, I have put together a partial lattice (just from
> the
> top down, but not as far as NoT) which may help visualize the structure
> that has been discussed so far: (05)
> The items in red are properties, while the items in black are classes in a
> subclass (isa) structure. It seems to me that “situation” appears twice
> in the diagram, as I have drawn it above. (06)
Situation is not a subclass of Event. The graph is fine if you leave
out the second "Situation". Situations can be either physical or not.
Physical Event is a subclass of Physical Situation and NonPhysical Event
(which i suppose is what you labeled "mental") is a subclass of
NonPhysical Situation. (07)
-- doug foxvog (08)
>
>
> Curiously,
>
> -Rich
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rich Cooper
>
> EnglishLogicKernel.com
>
> Rich AT EnglishLogicKernel DOT com
>
> 9 4 9 \ 5 2 5 - 5 7 1 2
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ontolog-forum-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of doug foxvog
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:49 AM
> To: [ontolog-forum]
> Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] do not trust quantifiers
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, September 21, 2010 20:20, FERENC KOVACS said:
>
>>
>
>> Questions to Doug
>
>>
>
> DF> Physical objects have spatio-temporal properties as well as mass.
>
> DF> Mental constructs have temporal properties, but neither spatial nor
>
> DF> mass.
>
>
>
>> Why should have all objects mass?
>
>
>
> I was only referring to physical objects. Others won't have mass. I
>
> suppose i should have said mass/energy since photons do not have mass,
>
> yet could be included in the concept "physical object". Narrower
>
> subclasses of "physical object" would require mass.
>
>
>
>> Situations have temporal properties and physical situations have
>> physical
>
>> objects as physical participants.
>
>>
>
>> What is a situation?
>
>
>
> A situation would be either an event or a static arrangement/state of
>
> some object(s) over some time period. Examples of static situations
>
> would be Barak Obama sitting on the desk in the Oval Office and a
>
> specific bank account being overdrawn.
>
>
>
>> Are all physical objects physical participants?
>
>
>
> Of physical situations, yes. But a physical person is not a physical
>
> participant in an ownership situation, nor is the object owned, even
>
> if it is a physical object.
>
>
>
> DF> [Non-physical situations have only non-physical participants, such as
>
> DF> the static
>
> DF> situation of a sick leave account having 15 days in it or the event of
> a
>
> DF> law expiring.]
>
>> Is a sick leave account and 15 days in it one object?
>
>
>
> No.
>
>
>
> The account is a single object. The amount in an account is a property
>
> of an account that varies with time. The situation of a specific
>
> account having a specific amount in it during a specific period is
>
> an object, with one relation relating the situation to the account,
>
> another relating it to the amount in the account, and another relating
>
> it to the time period over which the situation holds.
>
>
>
> The 15 days is a quantity -- which wouldn't fit the definition of "object"
>
> in many ontologies. I'm sure you could create some ontology, O1, in which
>
> O1:Object is a superclass of quantity.
>
>
>
>> Is it a generic object?
>
>
>
> The account is not the same as the quantity in the account, thus they are
>
> not the same object of any kind. If you define a set as an object, then
>
> the set comprising the account and a given quantity would by definition
>
> be an object in an ontology with that definition.
>
>
>
>> Is the event of law expiring complete or specific without a date?
>
>
>
> It is not completely defined without a date.
>
>
>
> DF> An illness is a physical event. A "form of illness" is a subclass of
>
> DF> Illness, which is a subclass of Physical Event.
>
>
>
>> It may be so subject to the terminology (definitions) of your ontology.
>
>> It appears that illness is a physical event as well as a class with
>
>> sublasses (forms of illness).
>
>
>
> These are two different things. Language is sloppy in referring to
>
> both cancer and a case of a specific person having cancer as "a disease".
>
>
>
> "Illness" is a subclass of physical event. "An illness", meaning "an
>
> instance of the class Illness" is an individual instance of physical
>
> event. "Form of illness" (your term) is a subclass of "type of illness"
>
> and is a metaclass since its instances are themselves classes.
>
>
>
>> What are the members of the class physical events?
>
>
>
> An event which causes change in the physical world (involving particles
>
> which physicists recognize) would be a physical event. Events such as
>
> a person receiving or loosing rights at a certain clock time would not
>
> be "physical" events.
>
>
>
>> Boundaries? Extension? Intension?
>
>> What is an event? By definition, in verbal terms that make sense and may
>
>> be visualized as it suggests to be "real"¯, taking place in spacetime.
>
>
>
> Non-physical events would take place in time. It might not make much
>
> sense to locate many of them to a narrower space than the sphere of human
>
> interaction, but a law coming into effect (or expiring) would be located
>
> in the territory of jurisdiction of the appropriate geo-political entity.
>
>
>
> Last time i checked, Cyc had a rather precise definition for Event and
>
> Situation. I'm currently traveling and don't have those definitions
>
> at my fingertips.
>
>
>
> -- doug
>
>
>
>> Thanks, Ferenc
>
>
>
> DF> Both the organism that is sick and the illness are spatio-temporal
>
> DF> things, and thus have a
>
> DF> location, starting time, and ending times (as well as other properties
>
> DF> of spatio-temporal things). The organism is also a physical object,
> and
>
> DF> thus has mass (as well as other properties of physical objects).Ā The
>
> DF> illness is also an event and thus has a doer and an object acted on
> (as
>
> DF> well as other properties of events).
>
>
>
> ===========================================================doug foxvog
> doug@xxxxxxxxxx http://ProgressiveAustin.org
>
>
>
> "I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
>
> initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
>
> - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
>
> ===========================================================
>
>
>
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> (09)
=============================================================
doug foxvog doug@xxxxxxxxxx http://ProgressiveAustin.org (010)
"I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
============================================================= (011)
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