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Re: [ontolog-forum] do not trust quantifiers

To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, doug@xxxxxxxxxx
From: Pavithra <pavithra_kenjige@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 06:30:04 -0700 (PDT)
Message-id: <173997.18339.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Physical properties ( like mass) of a physical object becomes attributes while designing the abstract version of the object.    Where as  concepts like account may not have such attributes.   Concepts are either based on real world things like accounts or imaginary ( for games and things where one may have 10 legged animal) and can have mass too..

Events are triggered by something.   Like a policy going into effect on a certain date.

Illness iby itself is a description of  set of things and  can be designed like a concept - object..  However when a person is ill, that is a process, triggered by some malfunctioning event..

Hope that helps.

--- On Thu, 9/23/10, doug foxvog <doug@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: doug foxvog <doug@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] do not trust quantifiers
To: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 7:49 AM

On Tue, September 21, 2010 20:20, FERENC KOVACS said:
> Questions to Doug
DF> Physical objects have spatio-temporal properties as well as mass.�
DF> Mental constructs have temporal properties, but neither spatial nor
DF> mass.

> Why should have all objects mass?

I was only referring to physical objects.  Others won't have mass.  I
suppose i should have said mass/energy since photons do not have mass,
yet could be included in the concept "physical object".  Narrower
subclasses of "physical object" would require mass.

> Situations have temporal properties and physical situations have physical
> objects as physical participants.�
> �
> What is a situation?

A situation would be either an event or a static arrangement/state of
some object(s) over some time period.  Examples of static situations
would be Barak Obama sitting on the desk in the Oval Office and a
specific bank account being overdrawn.

> Are all physical objects physical participants?

Of physical situations, yes.  But a physical person is not a physical
participant in an ownership situation, nor is the object owned, even
if it is a physical object.

DF> [Non-physical situations have only non-physical participants, such as
DF> the static
DF> situation of a sick leave account having 15 days in it or the event of a
DF> law expiring.]
> Is a sick leave account and 15 days in it one object?


The account is a single object.  The amount in an account is a property
of an account that varies with time.  The situation of a specific
account having a specific amount in it during a specific period is
an object, with one relation relating the situation to the account,
another relating it to the amount in the account, and another relating
it to the time period over which the situation holds.

The 15 days is a quantity -- which wouldn't fit the definition of "object"
in many ontologies.  I'm sure you could create some ontology, O1, in which
O1:Object is a superclass of quantity.

> Is it a generic object?

The account is not the same as the quantity in the account, thus they are
not the same object of any kind.  If you define a set as an object, then
the set comprising the account and a given quantity would by definition
be an object in an ontology with that definition.

> Is the event of law expiring complete or specific without a date?

It is not completely defined without a date.

DF> An illness is a physical event.� A "form of illness" is a subclass of
DF> Illness, which is a subclass of Physical Event.�

> It may be so subject to the terminology (definitions) of your ontology.
> It appears that illness is a physical event as well as a class with
> sublasses (forms of illness).

These are two different things.  Language is sloppy in referring to
both cancer and a case of a specific person having cancer as "a disease".

"Illness" is a subclass of physical event.  "An illness", meaning "an
instance of the class Illness" is an individual instance of physical
event.  "Form of illness" (your term) is a subclass of "type of illness"
and is a metaclass since its instances are themselves classes.

> What are the members of the class physical events?

An event which causes change in the physical world (involving particles
which physicists recognize) would be a physical event.  Events such as
a person receiving or loosing rights at a certain clock time would not
be "physical" events.

> Boundaries? Extension? Intension?
> What is an event? By definition, in verbal terms that make sense and may
> be visualized as it suggests to be "real"�, taking place in spacetime.

Non-physical events would take place in time.  It might not make much
sense to locate many of them to a narrower space than the sphere of human
interaction, but a law coming into effect (or expiring) would be located
in the territory of jurisdiction of the appropriate geo-political entity.

Last time i checked, Cyc had a rather precise definition for Event and
Situation.  I'm currently traveling and don't have those definitions
at my fingertips.

-- doug

> Thanks, Ferenc

DF> Both the organism that is sick and the illness are spatio-temporal
DF> things, and thus have a
DF> location, starting time, and ending times (as well as other properties
DF> of spatio-temporal things).� The organism is also a physical object, and
DF> thus has mass (as well as other properties of physical objects).�� The
DF> illness is also an event and thus has a doer and an object acted on (as
DF> well as other properties of events).

doug foxvog    doug@xxxxxxxxxx   http://ProgressiveAustin.org

"I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great
initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours."
    - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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