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Re: [ontolog-forum] brainwaves (WAS: to concept or not to concept, is th

To: "Deborah MacPherson" <debmacp@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "[ontolog-forum]" <ontolog-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: Pat Hayes <phayes@xxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:39:57 -0800
Message-id: <p0623093cc38dc2a00f82@[]>
>Hi Pat and John -
>The point I'm trying to get to is not to 
>recreate processes that may never be fully 
>understood about individual brains including why 
>or how a person would think their thoughts - its 
>the possibility of emulating a global brain. 
>Groups of people using their machines and 
>thinking together. Not by developing what John 
>calls "a complete model" of every possible 
>permutation and connection, a much more 
>constrained scenario just mapping the well 
>beaten paths and known connections because this 
>is plenty to work with.    (01)

OK, the above seems to be talking about brains. 
But at this point, you seem to start talking 
about a different topic, viz. knowledge. Maybe 
part of our inability to communicate very well is 
an assumption that these are the same topic, or 
even closely related? To me they are completely 
different topics.    (02)

>  The connections range from simple facts: water 
>is made of 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen, nobody 
>argues about it anymore,    (03)

range from this to... what?    (04)

But in any case, in what sense is this a 'connection'? Connection between what?    (05)

>  where it gets really interesting is the same 
>questions continuing to go unanswered and the 
>references to "what has been right" in the past, 
>for example, a 2006 Journal that still reaches 
>back to accepted ideas from 1983, 1978, 1970, 
>1967, 1960.    (06)

I guess I don't get the point here. Of course 
some ideas last 46 years, who would expect 
otherwise? I read journals that 'reach back' to 
ideas that were discussed, and maybe even 
accepted, in 2000 BC.    (07)

>The topology of partial knowledge    (08)

Topology of knowledge? Thats sounds interesting, 
but why would you expect knowledge to have a 
topology? What would continuity mean when talking 
about knowledge?    (09)

>  set in contrast to (relatively) complete and unchanging....records.    (010)

Sorry, Im completely puzzled.    (011)

Pat    (012)

>On Dec 17, 2007 7:57 PM, Pat Hayes 
><<mailto:phayes@xxxxxxx>phayes@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>  >Topologies ARE what I believe can be recorded and compared
>No, really, they cannot. Even the brain itself is
>not aware of its own topology. It could not
>possibly be: that would need at least a much
>bigger brain. Even if one were given a complete
>(dead) mammalian brain, there is no conceivable
>way to reconstruct all the neural connections in
>it, since the total cross-section of a neuron's
>end branchings greatly exceeds that of its axon,
>and these neurons are tightly packed in the
>cortex. Any way to 'take it apart' to find all
>the neurons, therefore, would of necessity
>involve breaking the connections which hold them
>together. Put another way: its impossible to
>assemble (or disassemble) a brain; it has to be
>For more on this and many other fascinating
>neural topics, see books by Valentino Braitenberg.
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>**************************************************    (013)

IHMC            (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973   home
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Pensacola                       (850)202 4440   fax
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